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High and Low of Positions and Honorific Speech in Japanese
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Though I don't know other societies very much, the consciousness of positions is often regarded as important in Japan. Exaggeratedly speaking, we, the Japanese, cannot sit down in a business meeting, cannot go out from an elevator and cannot sometimes ride a taxi with other people without thinking of high and low positions.
I guess that the consciousness of high and low of positions may be strengthened by use of honorific speech in Japanese (敬語, keigo). When we decide whether to use honorific speech or not to another person, we must make sure whether his/her position is higher than that of us. The large amount of such experiences will reinforce the consciousness (and the unconsciousness) of positions, though this is just a hypothesis.
Contrary to it, the strong concept of positions will promote the complicated and detailed system of honorific speech. If you have learned Japanese, you may have been embarrassed by its complicated honorific system. That's similar to Japanese people. I am often not certain of an exact honorific expression and, probably, have made lots of mistakes. Such complexity of honorific speech in Japanese has been formed by the strong and detailed concept of positions in Japan, I guess.
So the relationship between the concept of positions and honorific speech in Japanese resembles that between the chicken or the egg, though the concept of positions cannot be fried and honorific speech cannot be thrown to the football players who lost an important game.
I guess that the consciousness of high and low of positions may be strengthened by use of honorific speech in Japanese (敬語, keigo). When we decide whether to use honorific speech or not to another person, we must make sure whether his/her position is higher than that of us. The large amount of such experiences will reinforce the consciousness (and the unconsciousness) of positions, though this is just a hypothesis.
Contrary to it, the strong concept of positions will promote the complicated and detailed system of honorific speech. If you have learned Japanese, you may have been embarrassed by its complicated honorific system. That's similar to Japanese people. I am often not certain of an exact honorific expression and, probably, have made lots of mistakes. Such complexity of honorific speech in Japanese has been formed by the strong and detailed concept of positions in Japan, I guess.
So the relationship between the concept of positions and honorific speech in Japanese resembles that between the chicken or the egg, though the concept of positions cannot be fried and honorific speech cannot be thrown to the football players who lost an important game.
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Not even a single mistake ...
How many of levels of speech again in Japanese?
ええと 丁寧語、敬語、普通語?かな
多いですし
Though I don't know very much about other societies very much, the consciousness of positions is often regarded as important in Japan.
Exaggeratedly speaking (Better: It's an exaggeration to say, but still), we, the Japanese, cannot sit down in a business meeting, cannot go out from an elevator and cannot sometimes ride a taxi with other people without thinking of high and low positions.
When we decide whether to use honorific speech or not to another person, we must make sure whether his/her position is higher than that of us. ours.
The large amount number of such these experiences will reinforce the consciousness (and the unconsciousness) of positions, though this is just a hypothesis.
Contrary to it, ("Contrary" isn' the right word here. Maybe, "meanwhile" or "In addition") the strong concept of positions will promotes the complicated and detailed system of honorific speech.
So the relationship between the concept of positions and honorific speech in Japanese resembles that between the chicken or the egg, though the concept of positions cannot be fried and honorific speech cannot be thrown to the football players who lost lose an important game.
Ha ha. Very well.
Conciousness of Postion is common to every culture I think. Although there is much room for variation. Even in Japan.
I agree with you. There seems to be many variations among societies and even people in the same society about consciousness of positions. I should have written about not only the quantity but also the quality of the consciousness. The study about comparison among societies will be interesting.
Social Status and Honorific Speech in Japanese [If you stay with your original phrase, "of" needs to be omitted: High and Low Positions]
Though I don't know other societies/cultures very well, awareness of social status/position is often regarded as important in Japan.
It is only a slight exaggeration to say that Japanese people cannot sit down in a business meeting, cannot come out of an elevator and sometimes cannot ride in a taxi with other people without thinking about relative social status.
I think that the awareness of social status is strengthened by use of honorific speech in Japanese (敬語, keigo). ["I guess that... may be..." sounds like you are very unsure of this.]
When we choose whether (or not) to use honorific speech to another person, we must decide whether the other person's social position is higher (or lower) than our own. [It is easier to read "whether or not" if you keep it together when the verb phrase is long. "Or not" can also be omitted entirely-- you can translate かどうか with the single word "whether." Alternatives: "The choice of using honorific speech when addressing another person depends on whether the other person's social status is higher or lower." "... depends on whether we perceive the other person as having higher or lower social status."]
Perhaps many such experiences will reinforce the awareness (sometimes unconscious) of social position/status.
On the other hand, firmly established ideas about social status promote the complicated and detailed system of honorific speech.
If you have learned Japanese, you may have been bewildered by its complicated honorific system.
Japanese people sometimes feel the same way.
I am often not certain of the correct honorific expression to use, and have probably made lots of mistakes. [In English, a comma always comes before a conjunction (such as "and"), not after it, as in Japanese.]
I think that the complexity of honorific speech in Japanese is due to the intricacies of social status in Japan.
So the relationship between social status and honorific speech in Japanese resembles that between the chicken and the egg, though social status cannot be fried and honorific speech cannot be thrown at the football players who lost an important game (?). [The question is "Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?", but "that between" in this sentence refers to "the relationship between," which must be followed by a phrase of the form "X and Y", not "X or Y." If there is a custom of throwing chickens at football players, I have never heard of it. Also, it would be better to have the phrase corresponding to the chicken before the phrase corresponding to the egg, since that is the order of the words earlier in the sentence.]
I would advise avoiding "I guess" at the end of a sentence as a translation of 「と思いま」. Usually, it will be better to say "I think that..." or "I feel that..." at the beginning of the sentence. Sometimes it may be better to omit it entirely in the translated sentence.
I have also never heard that chickens are thrown to the football players. Eggs are appropriate tools to them...
Though I cannot find out the appropriate word, "social status" may not be complete in this entry because relationship between two people is sometimes relative. "Social status" is an (important) factor to define the relationship.
The joke at the end is confusing because there are two things on each list: (1) chicken and egg (2) frying and throwing. This leads the reader to expect one of the verbs to correspond to each noun. Instead, you are saying that both verbs are appropriate only to eggs. I have not heard of throwing eggs at athletes, either, although it is easier to imagine. Do the spectators bring them to the sports arena in preparation just in case their team fails them? Are you talking about American football or what Americans call soccer and the rest of the world calls football?
As for "football", I mean soccer here. In Europe, especially in Italy, when the national team had lost a very important game, bad fans threw eggs to the players. Some years ago, Japanese bad fans imitated it and threw eggs to Japanese players in the airport.
I've thought about this 'chicken and egg' concept as well, in the sense that societal hierarchies/structures are reinforced/created by language/speech and vice versa. It's interesting to ponder but of course I never get very far...
A language and a social structure go together, holding hands each other.