Differences between By & With and Electronic & Electric
Dec 12th 2008 11:26
日本語
前置詞
鉛筆
electronic
or
electnic
ふりがな
appendix
こんにちは、皆さん
実は前置詞の使い方がよくわかりません。時々悲しくなります。
鉛筆を電動鉛筆削り器で削りました。
添削をお願いします。
Hi, everyone! I do not know how to use preposition (prepositions?) well. Please correct my mistakes and give me your comments.
-----------------------------------------
I sharpened a pencil WITH an electric sharpener.
OR
I sharpened a pencil BY an electnic sharpner.
------------------------------------------
私はelectricとelectronicの違いもよくわかりません。
２つの単語の違いを教えてください。
I am not sure the difference between electric and electronic, too.
Please explain (clarify?) about these two words.
------------------------------------------
以上です。コメントを待っています。
That's all. I am looking forward to hearing from you.
------------------------------------------
ps 今日は脚注を付けることにしました。typoがあったら教えてください。
------------------------------------------
((footnotes))
皆さん みなさん、 (minasan) everyone
実は じつは (jitsu ha) to tell the truth
前置詞 ぜんちし (zenchishi) preposition
使い方 つかいかた (tsukaikata) usage
時々 ときどき (tokidoki) sometimes
添削 てんさく (tensaku) correction (noun)
お願いします おねがいします (onegai shimasu) please or I need your help.
鉛筆 えんぴつ （enpitsu) a pencil or pencils
電動 でんどう (dendou) electric????? or electronic?????
削り器 けずりき (kezuriki) sharpner
削りました けずりました (kezurimashita) sharpened
削る けずる (kezuru) sharpen (basic form of verb)
2つの ふたつの (futatsu no) two (When の is put after futatsu, it measn that something two. "の" is like a connecting word for the number and a noun. example: 2つのりんご、2つのみかん)
単語 たんご (tango) word or words
違い ちがい (chigai) difference
教えてください (oshiete kudasai) please teach me
教えてね (oshiete ne) teach me. (casual form between friends.)
教える おしえる (oshieru) teach
教えた おしえた (oshieta) taught
待っています まっています (matteimasu) am waiting for someone
待つ まつ (matsu) basic form
待った まった (matta) waited
待ちました まちました (machimashita) waited, polite form
待っていない まっていない (matteinai) negative form of wait (present tense)
待ちませんでした まちませんでした (machimiasen deshita) negative form of wait (past tense)
今日 きょう (kyou) today
脚注 きゃくちゅう (kyakuchu) footnotes
付ける つける (tsukeru) append or add
実は前置詞の使い方がよくわかりません。時々悲しくなります。
鉛筆を電動鉛筆削り器で削りました。
添削をお願いします。
Hi, everyone! I do not know how to use preposition (prepositions?) well. Please correct my mistakes and give me your comments.
-----------------------------------------
I sharpened a pencil WITH an electric sharpener.
OR
I sharpened a pencil BY an electnic sharpner.
------------------------------------------
私はelectricとelectronicの違いもよくわかりません。
２つの単語の違いを教えてください。
I am not sure the difference between electric and electronic, too.
Please explain (clarify?) about these two words.
------------------------------------------
以上です。コメントを待っています。
That's all. I am looking forward to hearing from you.
------------------------------------------
ps 今日は脚注を付けることにしました。typoがあったら教えてください。
------------------------------------------
((footnotes))
皆さん みなさん、 (minasan) everyone
実は じつは (jitsu ha) to tell the truth
前置詞 ぜんちし (zenchishi) preposition
使い方 つかいかた (tsukaikata) usage
時々 ときどき (tokidoki) sometimes
添削 てんさく (tensaku) correction (noun)
お願いします おねがいします (onegai shimasu) please or I need your help.
鉛筆 えんぴつ （enpitsu) a pencil or pencils
電動 でんどう (dendou) electric????? or electronic?????
削り器 けずりき (kezuriki) sharpner
削りました けずりました (kezurimashita) sharpened
削る けずる (kezuru) sharpen (basic form of verb)
2つの ふたつの (futatsu no) two (When の is put after futatsu, it measn that something two. "の" is like a connecting word for the number and a noun. example: 2つのりんご、2つのみかん)
単語 たんご (tango) word or words
違い ちがい (chigai) difference
教えてください (oshiete kudasai) please teach me
教えてね (oshiete ne) teach me. (casual form between friends.)
教える おしえる (oshieru) teach
教えた おしえた (oshieta) taught
待っています まっています (matteimasu) am waiting for someone
待つ まつ (matsu) basic form
待った まった (matta) waited
待ちました まちました (machimashita) waited, polite form
待っていない まっていない (matteinai) negative form of wait (present tense)
待ちませんでした まちませんでした (machimiasen deshita) negative form of wait (past tense)
今日 きょう (kyou) today
脚注 きゃくちゅう (kyakuchu) footnotes
付ける つける (tsukeru) append or add
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The difference between electric and electronic is kind of hard to explain. I think electronic generally refers to more high tech things. Things like computers, TVs, video game consoles, fancy digital cameras, and all those kinds of things. I think electric generally refers to less fancy things like an electric razor (for shaving). That's how I see it anyway. They are pretty similar.
Thank you so much for your corrections and comments. I completely understood about the difference between electric and electronics.
I am not sure about the usage of by and with. Actually, I found an example sentence of "I shapened a pencil with a knife" first. Both a knife and an electric sharpner are tools. So, you mean that the word "pencil sharpner" is a electric tool, can I use passive voice? If I use a word which refer to a simple tool like a knife, am I supposed to use a word, "with" in this case?
There is some overlap when it comes to certain machines, but it's nothing you should really be concerned about.
In addition to what jmccranie said, "with" is used for nouns whereas "by" is used for processes and actions. Here's what I mean.
"I sharped a pencil with a knife." (a knife = noun)
"I sharped a pencil by whittling it with a knife." (whittling with a knife = process/action)
"I sharpened a pencil with an electric sharpener." (electric sharpener = noun)
"I sharpened a pencil BY inserting it into an electric sharpener." (inserting into an electric sharpener = process/action)
"I killed him with a sandwich." (sandwich = noun)
"I killed him by shoving a sandwich down his throat." (shoving a ham sandwich down his throat = process/action)
'I make all of my worries go away with liquor." (liquor = noun)
"I make all of my worries go away by drinking enough liquor to make an elephant tipsy." (drinking enough liquor to make an elephant tipsy = process/action)
Thank you so much for the clarification. The expressions are so systematic. After reading them, I was able to understand about "with" and "by" in this case as if I learned a math formula. I have not studied about grammar seriously, it is easy to get puzzled.
I actually have another question about the meaning of SANDWICH in this case. Is the sentence an idiomatic expression? I do not know the meaning of sandwich......サンドウイッチで彼を殺した？ Did you make up the funny sentence on purpose?
Thank you so much for your comments! I like to visit your jornals very much!
"I killed him by shoving a sandwich down his throat."
これ、おもしろい例文ですね。with sandwichだと、例えばsandwichに毒が入っていて、それで殺された（サンドイッチが直接的な死因）、by shoving a sandwich down his throatの方は、sandwichを実際に喉に押し込んだことによる窒息死（サンドイッチを殺す道具として使った）、という解釈になるのでは？
前置詞は、難しいですよね。なるべくイメージで捉えようと思うのですが、なかなか感覚が身につきません。こうしたjounalはとても勉強になります。ありがとう！
いつも前置詞をまちがえてしまうので、少しずつここ（lang 8）で学びたいです。
こちらこそどうもありがとうございます！
2つの ふたつの (futatsu no) two (When の is put after futatsu, it measn two of something.
"の" is like a connecting word for a number and a noun.
単語 たんご (tango) word or words (or vocabulary)
"I sharpened a pencil with an electric sharpener" -> This is correct, but you can write the same sentence with "by" if you write "I sharpened a pencil by putting it in an electric sharpener." But the first sentence is obviously more common as it's simpler and more to-the-point.
とても参考になりました。
Thanks to Wakame-san for posting the questions, and to all those who gave explanations for their explanations!
皆さんの説明がともてわかりやすく、大変役に立ちました。ありがとうございます。
P.S.
私もelectricとelectronicの違いがよくわからず、英語で「電気ピアノ」や「「電子ポット」と、恥ずかしいことをよく言っていました。
私は今まで電気ピアノと呼んでいましたが、電子ピアノと呼ぶのが正しいのでしょうか？ちょっとネットで調べてみます★
私はピアノをやっていたので、電子ピアノが欲しくて、でも手が出ず、お店でポロンポロンひいて眺めているだけです。(>.<)
So, an old Sony transistor radio from the 60's is "electronic". A toaster is "electric". (except that modern toasters have computers in them, so now they are electronic too).
I think this is an interesting example. In (A) below, "with" certainly can not be used:
(A) I came to work by car / by bus.
Compare with (B), where "by" would be very very strange.
(B) I came to work with my red car.
This is tricky because, though the words "car" and "bus" are nouns, in (A) they actually indicate the process. This is why "by" is used. This is also why there's no "a" or "the" or "my" before "car" or "bus".
(...I hope what I said is correct. Someone please correct me if not.)
BTW, (B) is a little strange. More natural would be: "I took my red car to work".
Thank you so much for your comments!
<<Difference between electronics and electric>>
Since you informed me about details, I think I understand more clearly than before. Does the word, tube, mean vacuum tube in this case?
<<Usage of By and With>>
I made four sentences as below.
You accompanied by piano.
You accompanied with your Steinway’s baby grand piano.
I went to Okinawa by air.
I went to Okinawa with a Japan Airline’s decorated aircraft. (I am trying to say when I went to Hawaii by air, the aircraft was decorated as http://www.nihon-kankou.or.jp/vjc/web_eng/index.htm .)
I probably made some mistakes again, but I understand the nuance between with and by in this case.
wakame
PS 1 ) Thank you for the explanation of BTW, too! I would like to know many abbreviations which are commonly used.
PS 2 ) I have already memorized your nickname. I associate the words with your nickname and Rich Special Man.
> You accompanied with your Steinway’s baby grand piano.
>
> I went to Okinawa by air.
> I went to Okinawa with a Japan Airline’s decorated aircraft.
Yes, "by" and "with" were used correctly. :)
For other reasons, though, the sentences aren't natural. These are better, I think...
You accompanied on the piano.
You accompanied with your Steinway’s baby grand piano.
or, You accompanied on your Steinway’s baby grand piano.
I went to Okinawa by air.
I went to Okinawa on a specially-decorated Japan Airlines aircraft.
> Rich Special Man.
maybe "pooR Simple Man" is better. :)
Thank so much for explaining about these usage.
I found the ways to memorize these.
When people play piano, they hit ON the keys with their hands. I mean I will associate these words with "accompany" and "on" to memorize this phrase.
The painting are drawan ON the body of an airplane, so I think I can remember "ON" in this case.
Prepositions are tricky, but I would like to learn step by step. I hope you will help me again. Thank you again.
BTW, "pooR Simple Man" ==> You have a sense of humor! ha ha ha
"Steinway’s baby grand piano" should be "Steinway baby grand piano".
...unless your friend, Mr. Steinway, owns the piano. Then you would say:
You accompanied with Steinway’s baby grand piano.
Thank you so much for your comment!
I see. I should keep that in mind! I wish I had a Steinway piano though･･･.