Jun 01st 2010 22:38 no1knowsMe
<Until today, you can choose any languages for language flag, from today there will be shown only the languages you are learning and your native language.

I'm afraid that I must say this is not a good idea.

Jun 01st 2010 22:39 Asmaa
So, the updates are limiting the free user's accessibility to exactly two languages, is that correct?

Jun 01st 2010 22:45 no1knowsMe
@Asmaa
That's correct! So, I think this is not a good idea.

Jun 01st 2010 22:46 William
I'm not a free user, but I also have to say that this is a bit too restrictive. Maybe you could have an option to show just your languages, or show all languages?

I really like the feature, but it shouldn't be forced on people. (If given the choice, I would choose to only show my languages.)

Also, I plan to eventually learn more than 4 other languages. I'd hate to think that Lang-8 wouldn't be able to grow with me.

Jun 01st 2010 22:53 梟の微笑み
I don't think it's a good idea,too.

Jun 01st 2010 22:58 Lightning
That doesn't sound like the best of ideas. As much as I appreciate your services, I think you are limiting what a non-premium user can do. Not that is in unfair, as I can imagine it does cost a lot to run this website and what not, but, some people cannot afford to pay for premium. I'm sure you have good intentions though.

Jun 01st 2010 23:04 WallofIllusion
Maybe rather than limiting the language flags to the languages the person is learning, those languages could be brought to the top of the list to make it easier to find?
I don't think it's a good idea to limit free users in the number of languages they can request corrections in.

Jun 01st 2010 23:17 loki
excuse me, can i choose more than 1 motherlanguage? i speak both cantonese and mandarin! and i want to help more people

Jun 01st 2010 23:20 Fatih
Update is limiting the users' freedom, but i think it should have done this way.
Because, i myself, (not learning Greek Language) chose the Greek flag, and stated my good intentions about Greek People in English. (well, no one commented..). So it was a crack for the site.

Think about many people, just like me, and differing than me, they have grudge to another nation, It will be so bad for the users, for the site owner and for everyone...

It should have been done before, but on the other side, what if we want to study, more than 2 languages free?

Maybe we add more users...:)

Jun 01st 2010 23:47 rsail
<Until today, you can choose any languages for language flag, from today there will be shown only the languages you are learning and your native language>

Not a good idea!
I am a non-premium user. When I signed up I only had the option to enter;
1 native language (even though I'm bilingual and can help people in 2 language)
2 languages that I am learning (even though I am learning 3 or 4)

I used the Language Flag to indicate the language that I was learning for each of my Journal entries.

Now I am being restricted... Not a good idea!

Jun 01st 2010 23:53 yinamoto
日本語訳をこちらのコミュニティに挙げました。
http://lang-8.com/index.php?a=page_c_topic_detail&target_c_commu_topic_id=5999
（英語学習中の方はなるべく原文を読んだほうがよいと思いますが……）

If you can translate this entry into your skillful language, please post the translation into this community for those who cannot read text in English well:
Translated "Lang-8 info" (Unofficial)
http://lang-8.com/index.php?a=page_c_home&target_c_commu_id=925

Jun 01st 2010 23:56 rsail
I agree with Loki: "excuse me, can i choose more than 1 motherlanguage?"

I am bilingual in English and Spanish (native level on both languages). I would like to help people in both languages, however upon registration I had to choose only one native language.

Jun 02nd 2010 00:12 feld
Honestly, it doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

I started to write this long argument about how it was rather fair given that you still get so much for free, and then I realized this was the Internet and logic never goes over particularly well here.

Anyway, I applaud you guys for keeping this site running and trying to figure out how to make ends meet. Sorry more people don't appreciate all the work you do. =)

Jun 02nd 2010 00:13 seventhkey
These are not updates, but "downdates." I, myself, am already a premium user, and still now I feel inconvenient, because I was able to choose only two languages that I'm learning; in fact, I'm interested in more than 4 languages, as shown in my profile.
I know well that the site owner need to get more users in order to run this site, but I believe that these kinds of ways just bother the users, whether they are the premium ones or not.

Jun 02nd 2010 00:39 yokoyan
I totally agree with seventhkey.
I think you shouldn't limit the function which is able to use and make user inconvenience.
At first, I though it's good idea,because I misunderstood I become able to choose two languages which I'd like to correct lol

I like this site so much and hope to be better.
It's too difficult that every user is completely satisfied, but at least this idea isn't good.

Jun 02nd 2010 01:35 ステフ
To be honest, I am very happy with this update. One of the major problems I feel is present within Lang-8 is that the quantity of entries far surpasses the quality of entries. I felt that some of them were really low in quality, to the extent where you can tell that not much effort was put into writing it at all. On the other hand, there were quality entries that received little to no corrections simply because these low quality entries were pushing them down the line.

Hopefully, with the addition of this new limitation, people will prioritize their languages so that there will be fewer entries of low quality.

Jun 02nd 2010 01:42 KAZU
Yeah.. I don't think it's a good idea, too...
I have no trouble because I have only one mother tongue and I'm learning only one language, though.
but for people who are skilled in several languages, surely this will be an uncalled-for function for them.

Jun 02nd 2010 02:16 希月~kitsuki
Even though i like the feature to select any language... I kind of understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately it does take a lot of money to keep this website going and we said previously that premium users should have more features than free-users. The fact we can even use this website for free is already incredibly fortunate! I think we should support this change because for free users; you can still learn and help. Its sad to say that yes, some people can't afford becoming a premium-user but in that case, keep in mind that you're still able to use this websites main features and can continue learning. I think I've started repeating myself but I'm just trying to explain my point...

Jun 02nd 2010 05:39 Lynkusu
I agree with seventhkey and yokoyan.
As someone interested in more than even four languages, I'm extremely unsatisfied with this update.
I realise that you need donations to keep the site running, but can't you just improve premium accounts, instead of restricting the non-premium ones?

Anyway, however inconvenient it may be, if I continuously change the 'languages I'm learning', it'll work, right?

Jun 02nd 2010 08:16 Pan
I do understand why you did that and I think I would've been fine with this if it would've been like that from the start. Lang-8 is mostly free, so we should be thankful that we're allowed to use it for 2 languages, at least thats what I think (and I do believe that propably everyone else would've thought the same way if it would've always been like that). The problem is, that the users were already used to write in as many languages as they want and now you're taking this feature away. Stripping down existing features is never a good idea, you'll always get angry users.

I personally think it's not that bad... hey, I can still write in 2 languages for free! That's more than I would expect from such a site. But I totally understand that the people who're learning more languages are a bit annoyed by this now. But, to tell the truth, being able to write in more than 2 languages is the only point that would get me into being a premium account at the moment... and I propably would've thought "Great, let's get a premium account and I'll be able to do this!" IF it would've been like that from the start (Yeah, I'm repeating myself, but I really can't stress that enough - never take something away that you've already given! BAD IDEA!) - now I just can take this change with a grain of salt and it doesn't really convice me into getting a premium account.

Why don't you write a post asking the users what would convince them to buy a premium account, instead of doing things like that? I'd be more than willing to get a premium account if they would actually offer something worth the money (I think the current features are actually quite dumb... I usually even ignore the premium posts by other users because I find it terribley annoying that they always get pushed to the front and have a special background... yuck...) - and Lang-8 is the ONLY website we're I'm actually thinking about getting a premium account!

Also, the "multiple mother-tongue" Option really is important, you honestly need to get this into the system! :)

Jun 02nd 2010 10:23 paco
This is just for your information.

When you read the above entry written by the webmaster, you might think that even premium users cannot list more than four languages on your profile page as the languages you are learning. However, in reality, it seems that you can list as many languages as you like, if you are a premium user.

Jun 02nd 2010 10:49 GregSendai
That's a really bad idea! First of all, one should be able to choose more than 1 mother tongue. Secondly, I'm not a premium user, and I'm studying 7 different languages right now. So far I could post entries in Spanish, Japanese, Catalan, French, Portuguese, German and Russian, although not all of these languages were listed on my profile. Now I can onlu write in Spanish and Japanese... I'm extremely unsatisfied with this update!

Jun 02nd 2010 11:09 S-in-Japan
Yer, you can select as many languages as you like.

Taking away features isn't a good idea however perfect plans can never be made at the start, especially for a system that has grown slowly over time, probably started at first without any special mind to charge for features. It's an expensive and time consuming business so premium users are needed. $3.75 a month is hardly breaking the bank for such a useful service, don't you think?

Pan, might you think about getting a premium account simply because you wish to support the site? It's a unique mind-set of people on the internet that a service is only worth paying for when it's deemed worthy, the default position being a feeling of I 'should' get the majority of services for free. You don't usually get this in the real world. Big sites with backing from major companies can give away their services for free, but small companies have to charge.

However, having said all that the premium features are not quite extra special yet. I understand why people feel underwhelmed. With the mindset i mentioned earlier regarding internet users, the premium option needs something more. However what that might be, I don't know. The site's core features are already in place making removal of some of them from standard users the only way to go.

Being able to select two mother tongues might be fairly simple to implement, but would certainly be a premium feature.

Lynkusu and seventhkey: I think you can select any number of languages to study as a premium member. Not just 4.

In any case, if you want to get round the restriction, create two accounts. Not paying for things means having to expend more effort, unfortunately.

Anyone who is unhappy with the current premium features should suggest what they would be happy with. Personally I'm happy to simply have no ads. Although I would like to see in the future more features when creating diary entries (integrated flickr/youtube search, more text formatting options, wysiwug editing, etc.)

As a final thought, maybe the rankings can be put to better use. If people correct enough diaries, they get premium features for free? I think this would go along way to helping the poor English learners, who seem to have many diaries devoid of correction due to the user imbalance.

Jun 02nd 2010 12:13 Naomi
This may be a downgrade but I don't think we have right to complain about it as long as we use this site for free. Carrying on this site is not a charity for them.

Jun 02nd 2010 12:15 rsail
The problem here is that you have *taken away* something that non-premium users had.
If the rules were from the start: you only learn 2 languages and your language flag will only show your native language and your 2 learning languages, then agreed: if we want to learn more, buy the Premium.

But *taking away* doesn't feel right?

What if someone buys a Premium membership, and then they *take away* some feature saying: "if you want that, you need to buy a Gold membership"?
See my point? *taking away features* is not a good thing!

Jun 02nd 2010 12:55 genuine learner
I can't agree more with S-in-Japan that rankings (or points) should be the factor determining whether you get certain features. For those who work so hard on correcting others' diaries, they deserve some rewards. It's just like the system applied by most forums. The more you post/reply, the higher status of membership you get. Well, what gives an edge to Lang-8 is that points come from the one who write the journal, instead of counted per correction one makes. This can certainly prevent those forum spam phenomenon from happanening here.

Jun 02nd 2010 15:51 Pan
@S-in-Japan:
Well, yes, I actually thought about getting a premium account just to support the site. I haven't done it up to now because I actually really find the premium account features annoying, as described before. But I totally agree with you, the rates are fairly low, so I should overthink this again. Although I doesn't feel right for me to be an annoyance for other users just because I paid some dollars... :/

Having no ads isn't really a feature that will get people into buying premium accounts, because this is something that you can easily get for free with most browser by using Ad Block plug ins. (mind you, I actually use such a plug in but have it deactivated for Lang-8, so that I can still click the ads now and then to at least give back a little bit)

Jun 02nd 2010 17:18
YangYang san is doing his best to keep the site running! Please respect his hard work!:)

But I don't think it's a good idea too.

Ofcourse Premium Account payment is not much, but very many people for example in Russia don't have Internet payment credit cards. I tried to make such card 2 times, but it was no good - it didnot work with Ameba because russian cards don't hve 3d secure technology. So it seems I can't make a Premium account here. And many people from my country too. Maybe I don't understand something about this though:)

So maybe if you add more payment options people will easier register to premium. For example, Yandex Money service is very popular in Russia and everyone can easily pay by it. It was added to Facebook so I think it can be added here too if you want. Or mobile phone payments (they are the same for Russia and European countries) for example Zong, Paymo etc.

:)

Jun 02nd 2010 17:35 seventhkey
S-in-Japan: alright, I hesitated to try the new features because I thought that the language selection's option is limited, but anyway, in accordance with your suggestion, I tried changing my profile. Actually, I was able to.

Then, I would like to reconsider my opinion.
I think that the site master should have written that a premium user could select as many languages as he or she wanted to add. The "updates" news was confusing about that point.
Now I think that this is apparently a measure to get more premium users. I have nothing more to say about this point. Just recently I became a premium user; I admit that I was attracted to the feature that the notebook is infinitive, while it is also true that I thought it is worth paying, and by paying I could support Lang-8. The free users are still not satisfied at the "updates", though.
My idea is that the most valuable feature is that premium users have no ads. Lang-8 is a corporation, not a volunteer.
As for the language selection's option, I wish they do not distinguish between free users and premium ones. However, this is the Lang-8's choice in the end.
I totally agree to the idea that one could choose plural mother tongues. Remember that our world has a variety of people.
I don't agree to the idea that users who have corrected many entries should be able to get the premium memberships. I think they have already got the rewards for their corrections. Allowing them to be premium users by correcting many entries will cause more than enough corrections, sometimes useless and even annoying.

Jun 02nd 2010 18:53 lang-8 staff
Thanks for many replies and we read all of them.

Why we decided not to allow to choose any languages :
it was originally considered to make the entry form simple.
Users usually choose a few languages from the list but there were a lot of languages shown.
As a result, 16% of the entries written in a day were actually written in different languages or without language flag but needed corrections. Unfortunately, the entries were not always corrected.
We wanted to resolve this problem. This was our intention.
In addition, many users requested that they wanted to add more learning languages than 2. So we added the future.

For bilinguals :
Yes, we must add the option to choose more than 1 native language as soon as possible. please wait for the next future.

We believe using Lang-8 will be the best way to learn a language but currently is not. Please feel free to tell us what you hope and you want to do on Lang-8. we will work even harder.

Yuki

Jun 02nd 2010 22:02 violetize
I would like to be a premium user to support the site, but I don't like PayPal and I don't know how to use Yahoo!Wallet. I wish I could pay by credit card (for 1 year).

Also, if I became a premium member, my posts would appear at the top, and I don't want to use that feature - can you make it possible to turn the feature off?

I am glad the language flags on posts will be more accurate now. I hope the bilingual features get implemented soon for all the bilingual users.

Jun 02nd 2010 23:32 Rose_Garden
It was very interesting for me to know lots of ideas from the different point of view by the members from all over the world.

I actually am a premium member here although I didn't pay the money to be a premium user by myself because a friend of mine presented me the premium account. I was happy to be the premium member and was able to help a little to maintain this nice site.

Long ago, when I read an entry titled "Could you help Lang-8?" or something by the webmaster here, I tried to be the member by myself, unfortunately however, I had no way to pay the money because I didn't have the paypal account or Yahoo payment. I just would liked to help this nice site without advantages. I was able to know many nice friends all over the world thanks to this nice site and without this nice site, I would not be able to be a better speaker of English.

Like タチアナさん said, I wish I had more way to pay the money which is as same as the cost we pay for a cup of coffee at a restaurant in Japan. In other words, we can learn languages for a month by the money for a cup of coffee in Japan. I know the value of the money is different and it depends on the countries they belong, however we have to pay much more money in order to learn foreign languages here in Japan. I guess we have to pay at least $2,000 per a year if we learn foreign languages at language schools. As for myself, the problem stayed at the point how to pay it and I asked the question about the other way to pay the money, say...the way to pay from the convenience stores by Webmoney, Eddy and so on.

If I could pay by those way, I would present the premium accounts to some of my nice friends because I am not a student any more but I'm working right now.

For me, the advantage for the premium users is not a big deal. I'd just like to help a little for Lang-8.

I wish I had more way to pay for Lang-8.

This is my point.

Jun 03rd 2010 00:23 woshimao
今回は少し説明不足ではと感じましたので、追加の説明を伺えて良かったです。

確かに、Language flag が無い為に長い間添削されず、がっかりしてLang-8に来なくなってしまわれたのではないかと思われる日記も時々お見掛けします。

多言語を学習中の皆様には別途ご配慮を予定されていると伺い、安心いたしました。いつもありがとうございます。

Jun 03rd 2010 05:51 Jacob
lang-8 has stopped working in Opera. The sentences don't appear so you can't correct anyone's entries.

Jun 03rd 2010 20:26 Jacob
Sentences now appear in Opera but every time you correct a sentence, the next sentence you try appears blank when you click correct.

Jun 04th 2010 04:35 Johan 馮悠庵
What a terrible idea. Removing features. What are they going to remove next? Only allowing one person to correct an entry? Only posting 2 entries per week? Terrible idea.

Instead, focus should be put on how to improve the experience. The current situation for English speakers sounds like a good place to start improving. Surely some people would be willing to pay a small sum of money for more (or any!) corrections.

Jun 04th 2010 04:57 Johan 馮悠庵
Here's one idea:
Allow people to buy lang 8-dollars, (like e.g. skype credits). Go out of your way to make it easy to pay.

Let people put money on posts, which will put them on the top, for a while. Let users who correct this entry get some money themselves. Maybe have 50% "consumption tax"? Let users compete for the money by making better, or faster corrections.

Dream scenario: My English post, posted a few days ago, that I spent a lot of time on, only got one correction, and it wasn't a very good correction either. I have some lang 8-dollars left in my account (I paid via SMS, buying a correction from a professional teacher), so I decide to use it on my post (maybe $0.3 USD?). My post goes to the top, where people can see it once again, and this time with a reward. Within an hour I get two excellent and three mediocre corrections. Satisfied with the result, I decide to split the money in my post among the two excellent ones. My post soon disappears from the top.

Jun 04th 2010 06:20 Jacob
I think it is perfectly acceptable to do this. I think you provide an amazing experience as it is for free users. People need to realise that this website will only survive if it makes money. I honestly don't see what the fuss is about, I think you give an amazing amount of features as it is to free users.

Jun 04th 2010 07:15 woshimao
Lang-8ユーザーの一人として、現段階のLang-8が無理をして決済方法を増やすような選択をなさるべきではないと私は考えます。
決済手段を増やす事によって生じる関連業務負荷の増大に対し、現在の運営資源で対応するのは非常に困難だろうと容易に想像がつくからです。

こんなに素晴らしいサイトなのに、上部に表示されている僅か2000人分のプレミアム枠さえ未だに埋まり終えないのを日々目にしては、ユーザーの一人として運営側に本当に申し訳ないと思いつつ、現実の厳しさを思い知らされています。

それと同時に、上部に表示されている人数に動きがあったのを見ては、その都度まるで自分のことのように喜んでいます。

このトピックをご覧の皆様のような、問題意識を持って何とか良い解決方法がないものかと前向きに考えていらっしゃる方々には関わりの無いことですが、プレミアムの制度が設けられて以降、私が勝手に予想していたよりも現実のプレミアム加入数が桁数単位で遥かに少なかったという事実には本当に驚愕してしまいました。

Lang-8を支持するのに、必ずしも「ユーザー本人がプレミアムに加入する必要はない」と思います。

ログインする方、日記を書く方、添削する方、コメントをつける方、知人にLang-8を紹介する方、新しくユーザーになる方、いろんな方が居て下さらないと、単にプレミアム加入ユーザーだけが居たところでサイトは成り立ちません。

現行のPayPalや、Yahoo!ウォレットでは支払い手続きがとれない環境の方も確かに多いですし、寄付をするにしても、PayPalの他には日本にある銀行口座への振込みとなれば国際送金などで手数料の方が高くなる場合も多いでしょう。人それぞれに様々な事情があります。
保護者の同意なしにネットで物を買ってはいけない事情をお持ちの方もたくさんいらっしゃることでしょう。

また、他のユーザーの日記を丁寧に添削するという多大な労力と時間をLang-8に提供されている皆様のことは、特に尊敬しています。

そのおかげで、このサイトがここまで有意義なものになったのだと思います。

Lang-8が役に立つと感じている方々の中で、何か出来る余地のある方は、もしよろしければ何かなさいませんか？

このようなトピックをご覧になる方は既に何かなさっている方ばかりだと思いますので、ここでこんな事を書いても意味が無いのは重々承知の上ですが、こんなに素晴らしいサイトにしては有償会員の割合があまりに少ないと感じます。PayPalやYahoo!ウォレットが問題なく使用できる環境の方がそこまで少ないとは考えにくいです。

繰り返しますが、必ずしも「ユーザー本人がプレミアムに加入する必要はない」と私は思います。

人間は、自分を感動させたものに対しては、必要なら何か貢献するのもやぶさかでないと自発的に考える生物だと信じているからです。

Jun 05th 2010 07:23 Al_maat
I highly appreciate everything that you people do here, on this site, but...
this idea is NOT good. For me it's just terrible... Please, please do anything but don't restrict a number of languages. :((((

Jun 05th 2010 12:44 デレック
I think limiting free-member usage like this is a good idea as it pushes people to help support the site.

Yeah sure, people who don't support the site may have a little bit more of a functionality issue and have to signup for another account to write in various languages. However, this makes a great selling point to help you maintain this site.

It's not that I don't like free things, but I think it's better that the site's maintenance gets covered.

Jun 06th 2010 04:35 tricours
I don't like this new feature. It feels counter-productive, like the site isn't really encouraging people to learn more languages, but is just about making money after all. I was considering becoming a premium member previously, but now I don't feel like it anymore.

Jun 07th 2010 07:30 yoko
いつもお世話になっております。
UP　DATEの追加説明ありがとうございました。

今回のUP　DATEの理由で、
＞As a result, 16% of the entries written in a day were actually written in different languages or without language flag but needed corrections. Unfortunately, the entries were not always corrected.
とご説明頂きました。

が、言語フラグを制限するよりも、下記方法の方が効果的だと思います。

①言語フラグを選択してからでないと、日記を書けなくする。
⇒ 少なくとも、これで言語フラグの未選択はなくなります。

②投稿後の日記にも自分が選択した言語フラグを表示する。
⇒現在、投稿後の日記には選択した言語フラグが表示されておらず、
自分が、どの言語フラグを選択して日記を投稿したかを確認するには、
編集画面を開かなくてはなりません。
もし、英語の添削をしてもらいたいのに、
間違って日本語の言語フラグを選択して日記を投稿してしまった場合、
これでは、自分が間違っていることに気がつきにくいと思います。

以上、一度、ご検討頂けないでしょうか。
宜しくお願い致します。

Jun 07th 2010 07:41 figgham8
何語で書こうかしばらく考えましたが、日本語にしました。英語のコメントが圧倒的だから、そうしようかとも考えたのですが、サイトの公用語が指定されている様子もありませんから。運営者が日本人であり、日本語学習者が沢山おられることも考慮に入れました。

先日、NHKのある番組で、日本での英語学習塾の衰退が取り上げられました。ネットで無料あるいは安価に学習できるようになったことが一因であるというのが番組の論旨でした。NHKは原則的に個々の企業名は出しませんが、記憶違いでなければ、このサイトは企業とはみなされなかったのか、容易に特定できる形で紹介されたと思います。

私は、この番組で興味を持った一人です。そこで、早速アカウントを作って覗いてみました。プレミアム・メンバーへの誘いが載っていましたが、「特典」は私にはそれほど興味のあるものではありませんでした。しばらく（数時間）すると、サイトが非常に重くなりました。NHKの放映の影響ではないかと思いました。全国放送の影響力は大きいですから。一挙にメンバーが増えたのではありませんか？

それにしても思ったようにプレミアムが伸びないとすれば一因は、今の日本では、多くの人たちが「一円でも安く」を目指している点にあると思います。無広告の画面に月約400円の価値があるかどうか、考えてしまうのです。

ここでは、S-in-Japanさんのように、異なる見方が示されています。「ボランティアへの寄付」というものです。一つの考え方ではありますが、やや抵抗があります。「プレミアム」という言い方です。もし運営者がボランティア精神で運営しているのであれば、むしろ率直に「donation寄付」してくれる「サポーター」を募るのが自然だと思います。その場合、2000人という制限もナンセンスということになるでしょう。2000人からしか寄付を受けないとしたら、どんな意味、意図が考えられますか？

Yangyangさんはボランティア精神で始められたのではないかと思いますが、そうでしょうか？　また、今はどうなのでしょう？発想は、かなり企業家的になっているように、私には思えます。プレミアムの人数を制限して、早くしないと乗り遅れるよ、と誘うのも、典型的な企業家的発想ですから。最初は無料で誘っておいて、後から有料にするというのも、よく見られますね。マイクロソフトなども、その典型でしょう。幾ら不当に高いといっても、ワード、エクセルを使わざるを得ないだろう？というわけです。これは仕方が無いことと私は思うのですが、一方ではそう思わない人たちが居て、ソフトについて言えば、OpenOfficeOrgのように無料ソフトを開発しています。これは世界中のボランティアが知恵、時間、費用など、できる範囲で負担しあって始めて可能になることでしょう。

Yangyangさんは、どちらの「ビジネス」モデルを考えているのでしょう？企業家を目指しているとすれば、利用者もドライに判断してよく、「潰さぬためにプレミアムに」というのは理屈に合わないように思います。私はこのようなサイトは運営しだいで将来発展を見込めると思います。その場合、ある運営者が投げ出しても、他に引き受け手はいるでしょう。ネットの世界で、いくらでも起こっていることで、どこが引き受けるかさえ想像ができます。携帯電話にも手を伸ばしたあの会社など、その筆頭かもしれません。

「プレミアム」をこのように（言語制限のこと）利用するなら、もう少し目配りが必要だったのではないでしょうか？　善意で数ヶ国語添削しようとしてくれる人を、「プレミアム」で縛るのは不適当に思えます。時間はあるけど金は無い、という人は少なくないはずで、そういう人たちをどのくらい集められるかも、このようなサイトの鍵だと思います。
数ヶ国語で有益な添削をしてくれるとすれば、それはサイト維持のための立派なサービスです。そのような人に、「それだけの善意があるなら、サイトの持続に（金銭面でも）協力せよ」というのが適当とは思えません。誰かフレンドに呼びかけて個人的な寄付関係を作る、というのも同様です。Lang-8を介した「足長おじさん」方式がとれれば理想的かもしれないですね。　＞結局これは、donation ですね、目的を指定した。Foster Plan もそうですが。

添削を受けたい側についても、同様なことが言えます。普通に働いている日本人に、あるいはアメリカ人にとって、プレミアムの利用料はそれほど高くはないかもしれません。しかし、もし世界的な展開を本当に志しているなら（以前の言語リストはそう思わせます）、所得水準についても目配りが必要なはずです。日本人が始めたNPO法人「二人の食事」を思い出してください。会社員が一回の昼食でほとんど意に介さない額を「寄」することで、アフリカの子供たち一人の、一回分の食事が賄える、という趣旨の活動です。そのような国々の言葉を視野に入れるなら、言語制限をプレミアムと結びつけるのはサイトの発展をむしろ阻害する恐れもありそうに思います。

会費無料、広告収入で運営、を運営モデルとして始めたが、後者が思うようにならない、というのであれば、元来、プレミアムの無広告はこのモデル内での合理的な策（広告収入に見合う額の支払いによってすっきりした画面という利益を受ける）なのですから、会員の便宜の限定によってプレミアムを増やそうとするなら元々非合理的だとも言えます。このモデルでのプレミアム会員は、ドライに考えれば、広告収入のサイトの不利益を、プレミアム会費で補填しているにすぎないのですから。したがって、主機能の差別化でプレミアム会員を増やすのは、このモデルではサイトの維持には何の役にも立たないはずなのです。

長くなりました。
Yangyang さんは、言語制限の目的について（non-premium）、唯一、「言語選定の便利さ」を挙げています。確かに、「日本語のつもりだろうけど、アフリカーンズになってるよ」というコメントを読んだことがあります。今の方式が間違いを起こしにくいことは確かです。

お前の考えは？と問われれば、どなたかが書いているように「Yangyang さん次第」というしかありませんが、もしYangyangさんが「既存企業（業種は問わず）に対抗してボランティア　スタイルを理想として貫く」つもりなら、主機能については会員間の平等を図り、種々の形でのDonationを考える」のが当面、有力かと思う、というのが答えです。

一連のコメントを読み通して、悪意の人は居ないと感じています。もちろん私もそうです。Yangyang さん、差し出がましいようですが、中長期的な見通しなど、一度整理してみてはいかがでしょう？

Jun 10th 2010 03:20 serpent
yeah right, since when does two equal infinity... at least don't annoy me by letting me select my mother tongue instead of a language i need practice in.
i'm very new here and if it was like that i maybe wouldn't have registered at all :P

also, i find it offensive that you expect me to send spam to my friends! it might be ok to remind not to spam unfamiliar people, but friends???

Jun 10th 2010 21:57 vn
I agree with Pan.

I have a premium account right now, but if I didn't have one, I would feel really sad, because I always post things in more than one language.

Lang-8 is a wonderful site, no question about it.
But the thing is... it became such a big site thanks to the thousands of users from many countries, right?

Of course nobody would spend so much time and effort to create such an amazing website without expecting something in return, but, as Pan said, taking away something that you already gave is not a good idea.

Jun 17th 2010 22:01 oxpa
Hello.
I'm new to this site, but I think, i've found a mistake: in russian, when a person was at the site recently i have a message like: "Последний раз заходил на сайт: В течении 16 часов". As far as time is concerned you should write "в течение". It is an adverb. That message in russian means: "Last time, he spent 16 hours, to enter the site" or "Last time he was entering the site for sixteen hours". Better version would be: "Последний раз был(а) на сайте 16 часов назад." ("Last visit was 16 hours ago") Or may be: "Последний раз провёл на сайте 16 часов". Last sentence means, that user spent 16 hours on this site, when he was here last time.

Also, I can help you with other texts in russian on the site.

Jun 18th 2010 16:49 Sean
Hi Lang-8 stuff,

I'm afraid I think this is leading in the wrong direction.

Of course I understand any website cannot survive if it does not make money. However, I don't think it's a good idea to try to charge people who want to study many languages.

When introducing a freemium model, it should not discourage people from joining the community. That's why those websites charge users for some value-added features or some convenient features, but not for basic features.

In this sense, what's the point of charging people who want to study more than two languages? Do you think multi-language learners have more money or are more willing to pay because they are studying more languages? What's the difference from people who want to study one or two languages?

If I were the one who wants to study three languages and visited this website for the first time, I would find out I couldn't try the site for free and just bail out.

I'm afraid this idea will just discourage people from expanding into a new language or encourage multi-language learners to create multiple accounts to get around this weird restriction. Worse yet, this will keep out multi-language learners from joining this site. I don't think this is what you expect.

Could you please reconsider this restriction? I'm not against charging people. I love this site and want this site to grow further. But I think this idea might just shrink this community.

Jul 03rd 2010 15:07 Kama
I don't like this idea at all.

First, I can only choose Japanese and Korean. And I learned not only them but also English, Russian, Norwegian - which I would like to learn at. last from time to time. Second, why should I bother at all with getting help in my native language? And third, I wanted to get help with French for my novel - to have the dialogue smooth, and now I can't.

The hell with the changes. I want the old system back.

Jul 06th 2010 21:43 涂淑荣
it is a good idea

Jul 07th 2010 06:34 classic_mechanic
won't people just start making second and third accounts so they can practice other languages? Implementing this won't get much more money for the site, but it will causethe most multilingual of us the annoyance of having to shadily create a second account.

Jul 07th 2010 23:24 Kama
no, I won't create another account, rather I'd leave this site. Besides, I hate Paypal and never will use it to pay for anything, no matter how I like the site/service, etc. I'd prefer paying with my internet debit card. Only Paypal (please, don't mention Yahoo Wallet) is a big no-no for me and makes me feel less like paying to get premium account.

Jul 10th 2010 11:41 Jubinell
Fucking horrible idea...Don't turn evil Lang-8! We have enough of those evil internet companies already.

Jul 19th 2010 18:37 Martyn
Personally, as a paying user, I am quite happy to see differentiation. I don't have a problem with imposing limits on free use, even if beforehand something was free and unlimited. I would like to see this site continue to exist and offering free users the ability to learn/correct two languages seems quite fair to me. If you want to do more, pay a little to support the site. Without support, new features cannot be added.

Jul 19th 2010 23:49 鴨左衛門
こ、、、これは、、、コメントが百花繚乱だ・・・。　　　　　　嬉しい悲鳴だね！がんばって！！＾＾







　　　I always think that I thank you very much indeed!!!



But this new design, I do not like!! NO! 狭い狭いに感じるよ～今のデザイン＞＜



い・や・だｗｗｗ　　デザインだけでも戻してくださいm(__)m

狭いとお客減るぞ～ｗ


☆As a premium member, I request the previous design!!☆



でもね、ありがとね。

Jul 20th 2010 04:32 dvh
My notes on recent update:

- before, in lang-8 homepage in "My Language Matches" widget exact matches was orange and native language only matches was yellow, now all are the same color

- Romani language is still not in the list of languages. Not to be confused with Romanian language which is spoken in Romania. Romani language is spoken by Gypsies.

- I think current visual is better then it was before, good work!

Jul 20th 2010 22:13 brew99
Thanks for always keeping the site up-to-date! It's exciting to have a new user interface! We have to learn to love the new one, but glad it is keeping up appearances! Thanks.

Jul 22nd 2010 12:03 Eniko
<Until today, you can choose any languages for language flag, from today there will be shown only the languages you are learning and your native language>

That's not a good idea,and not convient...!!!!

Jul 22nd 2010 12:04 Eniko
I like the old lang-8...

Aug 10th 2010 20:28 Abdus
I just joined this site. I already have a membership with Livemocha and use Rosetta Stone. I was looking for something different. Not more of the same old thing :(

Aug 13th 2010 20:57 鴨左衛門
おつかれさまです。
なるべく自由度の高い設定で頼みます：）


それから、メッセージを作成するとき、物凄く書きにくいというよりもむしろ、おかしい！

これは即、直した方が良いと思われます！　ヤバイ！；）


是非、　長文を　作成してみてください！　やばいから！＞＜

Aug 14th 2010 01:04 Flarona
"Lang-8 is a corporation, not a volunteer."
I think that in the beginning, he was a volunteer. :) However, it became more and more expensive to maintain the server as the member count increased, and so he decided to add the premium account thing.

I hope I'm not the only one who remembers the time when language flags didn't exist and the entries we could see on our home page were "newest entries from people who study your native language." Thus, this "update" really is going back to the past system. We could and still can choose only two languages we're learning. In the old system, that meant I could see entries in Korean, Polish, etc. there because some of those users weren't too active with Finnish. :>

Hm. "Priority seat of entries" sounds bad to me because I have to see the same entries for so many days that they start annoy me (atm one is from 6/27 and the other is from 7/31), but I guess my entries wouldn't be like that after all, since I'm learning Japanese and English, the two major languages here.
Does anyone think that the stars and crowns on the Go Premium page are too much? I used to think they were just "look at this gorgeous layout and forget how few features you'll get" disturbance...


Actually, I came here just to tell that otherwise I like the new design, but every time I'm editing my entry and the size of the text box changes, I find myself writing - or worse, erasing - the end of the last line. And I can't even undo this for some unknown reason. :(

Sep 25th 2010 00:59 Liliana
I don't think it's a good idea !