Language and Woman (2)
Sep 22nd 2010 03:15
English
Japanese
日本語
女
男
male
female
gender
Roomy
Though I thought my previous article contained kind of controversial content, most of the readers' responses were more favorable than anticipated. Anyway, I was much impressed by that excellent book written by Kazuko Minami for women who are learning, or interested in, English expressions.
A few days ago, I had a talk with a friend of mine about this book.
She asked, "So, should we always use tender and elegant expressions when we speak in English?"
"I don't think the author means it that way, but wouldn't it be nice if we could come across as being attractive and feminine rather than rude and charmless?" I answered with a smile.
We agreed that, though we wouldn't like to be compelled to use feminine expressions, it's not bad to have chances of enjoying the difference between male speech and female speech. Japanese is sometimes regarded as a language with highly developed gender-specific expressions, most of which, however, is based on how you want to express yourself in words. It's just like dressing up in various outfits and styles you like.
As far as women's language in Japan is concerned, I don't think that it restricts the social advancement of women, even though they are expected to speak more carefully than men. The use of typical gender-specific expressions and words in Japanese is mostly characteristic of casual speech, whereas in formal speech - whether it's plain or polite -, both men and women use neutral language in common. Thus, Japanese women can speak or write things in social life without concern for gender difference, while sometimes scattering their womanly wit and charm here and there.
The difference between male speech and female speech in Japanese might be bound to diminish because not only do women come to use more and more neutral expressions, but men also begin to avoid coarse or stiff expressions typical for men's language. Viewed from another angle, as women get involved in society, the Japanese language used in social life will change, adopting more and more soft and casual expressions. We have already seen this kind of changes from our everyday language to administrative terms.
If you went back far enough in time, you can see women have been playing important roles in the evolution of the Japanese language. The most revolutionary of them was the large part that women played in the widespread use of hiragana, which enabled the development of purely Japanese works of literature as well as, of course, the introduction of the modern Japanese writing system.
Women's difference from men can thus sometimes exert positive influence on society, on the condition that it should not be used as a pretext for discrimination.
I think the ideal relationship between men and women is to understand the differences between them and to respect each other. As men are trying to be more gentle and polite to avoid mistaking rudeness as masculinity, we as women have to learn more and be wiser to avoid mistaking ignorance for femininity.
A few days ago, I had a talk with a friend of mine about this book.
She asked, "So, should we always use tender and elegant expressions when we speak in English?"
"I don't think the author means it that way, but wouldn't it be nice if we could come across as being attractive and feminine rather than rude and charmless?" I answered with a smile.
We agreed that, though we wouldn't like to be compelled to use feminine expressions, it's not bad to have chances of enjoying the difference between male speech and female speech. Japanese is sometimes regarded as a language with highly developed gender-specific expressions, most of which, however, is based on how you want to express yourself in words. It's just like dressing up in various outfits and styles you like.
As far as women's language in Japan is concerned, I don't think that it restricts the social advancement of women, even though they are expected to speak more carefully than men. The use of typical gender-specific expressions and words in Japanese is mostly characteristic of casual speech, whereas in formal speech - whether it's plain or polite -, both men and women use neutral language in common. Thus, Japanese women can speak or write things in social life without concern for gender difference, while sometimes scattering their womanly wit and charm here and there.
The difference between male speech and female speech in Japanese might be bound to diminish because not only do women come to use more and more neutral expressions, but men also begin to avoid coarse or stiff expressions typical for men's language. Viewed from another angle, as women get involved in society, the Japanese language used in social life will change, adopting more and more soft and casual expressions. We have already seen this kind of changes from our everyday language to administrative terms.
If you went back far enough in time, you can see women have been playing important roles in the evolution of the Japanese language. The most revolutionary of them was the large part that women played in the widespread use of hiragana, which enabled the development of purely Japanese works of literature as well as, of course, the introduction of the modern Japanese writing system.
Women's difference from men can thus sometimes exert positive influence on society, on the condition that it should not be used as a pretext for discrimination.
I think the ideal relationship between men and women is to understand the differences between them and to respect each other. As men are trying to be more gentle and polite to avoid mistaking rudeness as masculinity, we as women have to learn more and be wiser to avoid mistaking ignorance for femininity.
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Though I thought my previous article contained somewhat controversial content, most of the readers' responses were more favorable than I had anticipated.
The use of typical gender-specific expressions and words in Japanese is mostly characteristic of casual speech, whereas in formal speech - whether it's plain or polite -, both men and women use the same neutral language.
ネイティブの方々の添削を楽しみにしてます。
文章からは非常にスタンダードで生真面目な印象が伝わってきます。ふと考えてみたのですが、Roomyさんの基本情報を知らないでこの文章を読んだとしたら、どのような印象を得ただろうか、ということです。
「非常に行き届いた文章で、繊細な気遣いがみられる」文章だと思いました。
これはやはり女性らしさ、と言ってもいいかと思います。
日本語であれ、英語であれ、考えていることを文章にしてみたとき、自分の中には元来の男性らしさとともに、女性らしさのようなものもある気がします。母国語の日本語であればそれを有効に表現できる気がします。英語でも、そのような表現力を身につけられたら、またぐっとその幅が広がる気がしますよね。
重要なヒントをありがとう。
Thank you for your corrections!
I appreciate your interest in my journal. :)
素敵なコメント、ありがとうございます！
私の日記を読んでいただいて、うれしいです♪
jubayさんの分析力にも脱帽です。私はよく「意外にまじめだね」（笑）って言われます。見かけだけで中身が空っぽの人間になりたくないので、いつも色々なものに興味を持って知識を身に着けるように心がけています。もちろんjubayさんの深い見識や表現力には足元にも及びませんが。
おっしゃるように書いた文章からは、その人の内面が良く見て取れますね。以前は英語の文章はどれも同じに見えていたんですが、最近になって実は書いた人によって違った個性があることが分かりかけてきました。
これからもご指導ください。よろしくお願いします☆
Well... can I think that there are few mistakes in my English this time? If so, I'd be greatly pleased! :)
でも、日本語の男女言葉差異が中国語よりもっと多いので、これが今後に勉強の目指しと思います。
コメント本当にありがとうございます。
中国語にも男女の言葉に違いがあるんですか？とっても面白そう♪今度教えてくださいね。
着るものに男女で違いがあるように、言葉も少し違っていたほうが楽しいと思います☆
That would be wonderful. I feel fairly confident that I can speak for most men when I say, that while it is often amusing and entertaining to have a woman or women speak like "one of the guys," during a sporting event or out to a bar, there comes a time when you want to be with a woman who is attractive, feminine, and charming. It makes us feel good that we can be with a woman who can express herself without the vulgarities of language, even if us men fail to live up to that general expectation by women. At the very least that is what I like and search for in women.
As you pointed out, women have played a key role in the development of the Japanese language, stretching back to the Heian Period. Woman's writing prevented the take over of pure Chinese text, in my opinion, and like Hangul to Koreans, Hiragana and Katakana gave the general populace tools to educate themselves, albeit took a long time, but the tools nonetheless.
I realize that I have an appreciation for the Heian Period and writing more than most people. But, before I get off topic, the use of Hiragana during ancient Japan is brilliant. Since it is used to express phonetic sounds without any set meaning, like Kanji, it required intelligence and quick wit to express oneself. The ambiguity of Waka poems proves that without the intervention of court ladies that that creativity during those times would have stagnated. Essentially, the book you read and what you have said only confirms how special woman's language should be and is. Neutral language is fine and I don't think there is anything wrong with that, but I think it will be a sad day when the difference disappears from the language. Ultimately, there is no reason why women cannot be feminine, and men cannot be masculine without the use of vulgar language.
Feminine langugae or neutral one?
I really think that like you said, it's important that even though there are differences between them, there should be a respect, this will allow the differences in the way men and women talk to benefit society. And I think that in Japanese this division of language is done well because of the respect, whereas in other languages it is used as fuel for discrimination.
I think male and female speech in Japanese is not a set of grammatical rules but ways of speaking depending on how you want to express yourself in words. Though they are getting closer to each other, there still remain many differences between them. For example, the use of 僕 or 俺 as the first person is restricted to males. 僕女 and 俺女 (a girl who refers to herself as 僕 or 俺) are quite exceptional. As a whole, male speech tends to be coarser than female speech, as is typically seen in plain imperatives.
Through history, women have also affected the direction of Japanese though unobtrusively. It's my view that one of the good examples in today's Japanese is the use of お (o-) instead of ご (go-) before "Sino-Japanese nouns" (e.g. お返事, お電話, お誕生日, and お天気), the former being typical of everyday terms preferred by women (e.g. お洗濯, お洋服, お野菜, etc).
Of course, ways of speaking primarily depends on the person. With a few exceptions like the first person terms, the gender in Japanese is not grammatically determined as seen in some other languages. Just like deciding between skirts or pants, we can speak either femininely or gender-neutrally. But I can't imagine men and women looking quite alike, having the same voice quality, and wearing the same way.
> Which one does Roomy prefer?
> Feminine language or neutral one?
Hmm, that's a difficult question xD
As a practical matter, I'd like to use the both. The formal language in Japanese is purely gender-neutral which you can see in newspapers, business letters, academic theses, and so on. I'll use thoroughly neutral language in business, but I'd like to enjoy using feminine expressions in private life. :)
That's a good point. I don't think the difference of male and female speech in Japanese is a sign of discrimination because it's not that we're compelled to always use gender-specific expressions. We have a measure of freedom to choose. Where there are relationships based on mutual respect between men and women, and they appreciate and acknowledge each other's differences, there won't be discrimination,
I think according to this article, being born as a Japanese person and growing up in Japanese society can be both a blessing and a burden. Because language-wise, while tradition offers such richness in terms of gender-specific mannerisms, it may also have caused people to adopt gender-specific thinking and behaviors from a very early age.
Nonetheless, personally I consider this a positive outcome because just as racial diversity is celebrated in many countries as a symbol for multiculturalism today, it's worthwhile to gain a deeper understanding of gender-specific traditions and behaviors in today's Japanese society. For me it seems that this kind of topic would remain as one of the greatest cultural lessons for non-Japanese when learning about Japan.
Thank you again! I enjoyed reading it ^___^
We agreed that, although we wouldn't like to be compelled to use feminine expressions, it's not bad to have chances opportunities of enjoying to enjoy the differences between male speech and female speech.
Japanese is sometimes regarded as a language with highly developed gender-specific expressions. Most of which, however, is based on how you want to express yourself in words.
The difference between male speech and female speech in Japanese might be bound to diminish, because not only do women come to use more and more neutral expressions, but men also begin began to avoid coarse or stiff expressions typical for men's language.
Viewed from another angle, as women get more involved in society, the Japanese language used in social life will change, and adopting adopt more and more softer and more casual expressions.
We have already seen this these kind of changes from our everyday language to administrative terms.
I liked how you ended the entry with that last sentence, Roomy :).
Hi Nathalie! Thank you for your comment. For me, difference of male and female speech is not repressive, as some people may think so. It's as natural as Eve is not Adam but Eve. Just like choosing today's outfits, I'd love to enjoy choosing expressions in words, whether they're feminine or not, depending on the mood or situation I'm in at the time. This is a way of expressing myself.
Imagine that we live in a country where men and women always wear uniforms in the same color and the same design, and that one day we encounter people from another countries who wear various kinds of clothes, sometimes enjoying the difference of fashion and style between men and women. Since we believe that we are equal, we may think that they are unhappy people who live in an unequal world. Of course this is unrealistic unless we are fanatic communists.
What are called gender-specific expressions in Japanese might be a conspicuous result of tendencies that are more or less found in most, if not all, of other languages as well. Viewed in this light, this can be a very interesting subject of linguistic studies. So I'll continue to think about this topic.
Thank you for your interest, Nathalie!
Thank you for your corrections, Jeffrey !
The proper use of commas in English is also difficult for me! xD In Japanese, the rules for comma usage is not so clear as in English. This is one of the reasons why we can hardly use comma properly. But you explanation is very helpful for me. Also, I appreciate the compliment! :)
"I don't think the author means it that way, but wouldn't it be nice if we could leave an image to others as being attractive and feminine rather than rude and charmless?" I answered with a smile.
I think the method for/secret of keeping ideal relationship between men and women is to understand the differences between them and to respect each other.
Thank you for the correction and comment!
I've heard of the name Sigmund Freud before. He said that all humans have natural drives and urges repressed in the unconscious. Apart from that theory, I think it's not a sophisticated way for a boy or a man to get out his feelings by using coarse language or expletives. Sometimes girls and women, too, want to take out their feelings on others, but they use rude words much less frequently than boys and men do. This is a remarkable difference. Hopefully males will learn means of self-expression from females.
I always think about you as a researcher of language when I read your article. Or you wrote an essay or thesis about something related to your journal? You always stick to the title you wrote on this. I think it's really interesting. Interesting topic that I've never thought.
Thank you for your excellent essay!!
Wooow, thank you for the compliment! It's really more honor than I deserve.:D
Exactly, I'm so intrigued with languages, but I'm not a scholar, so I thought I should start with a topic which is familiar to me. I'm very happy if you find this essay interesting. Also, I'm looking forward to reading your next post!
お久しぶりです。＾＾
待ってました。この日記を。
ルミさんの日記が大好きです。いつも興味深い読みました。
I totally agree with you on this topic.
え？待っていてくれたの？嬉しい～（＾－＾）
そう言われると、苦労して書いた甲斐がありますね～♪
これからも応援してください☆
I'm glad you agree with me.
Your entries are always useful, and your English is still excellent!
Anyway, I like your conclusion also... ^_^
Oh, really? That textbook sounds very interesting.
Does it contain parts that are related to the features of male/female speech?
Thank you.
@ジャックさん
สวัสดีค่ะ สบายดีค่ะ ขอบคุณค่ะ สบายดี หรือคะ
(I'm fine, thanks! And you?)
Thank you for reading this post. I appreciate it. :)
Japanese is sometimes regarded as a language with highly developed gender-specific expressions. Most of this, however, is based on how you want to express yourself in words.
The difference between male speech and female speech in Japanese seems bound to diminish because not only are women coming to use more and more neutral expressions, but men also are beginning to avoid coarse or stiff expressions typical for men's language. >(1.) "might" and "bound to" don't really belong together, I think because one expresses uncertainty and the other certainty. (2.) it seems to me that you are describing a process which is already happening, so Present Continuous Tense works best.
If you go back far enough in time, you can see that women have been playing important roles in the evolution of the Japanese language. >"go...can see"/"went...could see"
I think the ideal relationship between men and women involves understanding the differences between them and respecting each other. >it seems to me that other factors would also exist in the ideal relationship, so your sentence shouldn't use "is" to define it exclusively. Also, I would suggest "respecting them", meaning respecting the differences.
Thank you for your corrections. Well, I seem to have sort of a strong tendency to use modal constructions like "might", "should", etc. I wonder if this marks out the language of women, lol.
"I don't think the author meant it that way, but wouldn't it be nice if we could come across as being attractive and feminine rather than rude and boorish?" I answered with a smile. ("boorish" is another alternative)
Let me try to rephrase this:We eventually came to the mutual agreement that though we wouldn't want to be restricted to feminine expressions all the time, we would also enjoy the opportunities of being able to use the masculine speech/expressions. (I understand your original sentence but something feels odd; perhaps it's just not smooth or natural enough.)
... is based on how one perceives/adopts self-expression. (Another way of saying it).
It's just like dressing up in various outfits and styles that you like. (the cream on the cake! ;p)
Thus, Japanese women can speak or write things in social life without much concern for their gender difference, while sometimes "dispersing" their womanly wit and charm here and there.
The difference between male speech and female speech in Japanese might be bound to (too verbose here if you add "be bound to") diminish because not only have women come to use more and more gender-neutral expressions, but men have also begun to avoid coarse or stiff expressions that are typical of the masculine speech.
We have already seen such changes through our everyday language to administrative terms. (administrative terms??? meaning slightly unclear.)
The most revolutionary of them was the large role that women played in the widespread use of hiragana. This enabled the development of purely Japanese works of literature as well as, of course, the introduction of the modern Japanese writing system. (When the sentence is too long for reading, try to break it up.)
Let me try to rephrase this sentence: It can therefore/thus be seen that this gender difference could exert positive influences/effects on the society, on the condition that it is not used as a pretext for discrimination.
Isn't this already a large disparity between male and female? The social norms that a Japanese female feels bounded to and by? I think language plays a far larger role than we know or imagine. If I always have to speak so courteously to my subordinate, then it may be hard for me to gain his/her respect in time to come, don't you think so?
(Hi, Rumi! I'm fine, thanks.)
But, I'm so sleepy now...Zzz
お休みなさい！
If anything there are several words that you will find males using a lot less than their feminine counterparts, such as the word 'cute'. I can't think of any more off the top of my head but in conversation you will find that (I'm sure you've already noticed this :)) guys will simply say 'That looks awesome!' or 'Wow that's cool!'. Instead females will be more inclined to say the popular 'Nawww it's so cuuute!' ^^. Aside from these slightly gender specific words there is honestly not too much difference from general conversation.
The only other difference I can think of is just general topics. For example girls talk about shopping, getting nails/hair done, make up, lipstick that kind of thing. Now I'm not saying that every women out there talks to her female friends about this kind of stuff but I've heard it being done quite a bit, so it does happen. On the other hand you will not find two or more males talking about this kind of thing in a conversation (generally speaking ;D).
Keep up the fascinating journal entries. ^^
Thank you for your corrections!
> Let me try to rephrase this:We eventually came to the mutual agreement that though we wouldn't want to be restricted to feminine expressions all the time, we would also enjoy the opportunities of being able to use the masculine speech/expressions. (I understand your original sentence but something feels odd; perhaps it's just not smooth or natural enough.)
Sorry for my confusing sentence. What I meant to say was that we didn't want to be compelled by other people to use feminine expressions, but if not, it wouldn't be bad for us to sometimes use feminine expressions so that we could feel and enjoy the difference from males.
> We have already seen such changes through our everyday language to administrative terms. (administrative terms??? meaning slightly unclear.)
By "administrative terms", I meant the terms that bureaucrats use in official documents and announcements. Those terms were very stiff and hard to understand. Recently, however, they began to use plain language that we can easily understand.
> Isn't this already a large disparity between male and female? The social norms that a Japanese female feels bounded to and by? I think language plays a far larger role than we know or imagine. If I always have to speak so courteously to my subordinate, then it may be hard for me to gain his/her respect in time to come, don't you think so?
Again, I'm sorry for my bad explanation. In Japan, everyone is expected to speak carefully in public life. Even bosses won't gain respect from their subordinates any more if they (the bosses) use rude language. It's because they have begun to think that one's ability should be judged by one's capability. In business, formal-polite language is the norm, where gender-specific expression is unnecessary.
Thank you for giving your alternatives and the cream on the cake for me! ;D
ขอบคุณ มากค่ะ
Thank you for your reply.
Aww, You must be tired. Please take a good rest!
体に気をつけて、無理をしないでね。
Welcome back to Lang-8! Thank you so much for your comment. I'm very glad you are interested in the topic of this post.
Of course, I know that the way men and women speak in English is almost the same, and that there's no difference between them in terms of gender-specific words (I mean about such words as used for the first person pronouns and the like) , but it's actually quite recent that I noticed they sometimes use different expressions for the same situation. As you pointed out, "so cute" seems to be preferred by females. Rebekka, a Lang-8 friend of mine, told me that "fabulous" and"lovely" are almost female-exclusive words that men are very unlikely to use.
Lightning (she is also a Lang-8 friend of mine) introduced me Robin Lakoff's gender theory. Robin Lakoff published a set of basic assumptions about what marks out the women's language. Although her theory is now regarded as kind of outdated, Lakoff's list of differences between men's and women's language served as a basis for the later discussions about this point of view. I find Lakoff's theory to be very interesting because some of her remarks about the women's language in the USA more than 30 years ago might apply to our language in today's Japan. For example, many girls including me tend to speak with a rising intonation at the end of a statement just like asking a question. Males speak in a more assertive tone.
The point you made as to what topics girls in your country are talking about is also true for girls in Japan. Most of us love to talk about shopping, getting nails/hair done, make up, lipstick and the like. Those may be a common concern to girls and women throughout the world. :)
The last bit is confusing, "enjoy the difference from males". Do you mean you would like to enjoy the opportunity to be able to use masculine speech, OR, enjoy the opportunity to be a male?
>Again, I'm sorry for my bad explanation. In Japan, everyone is expected to speak carefully in public life. Even bosses won't gain respect from their subordinates any more if they (the bosses) use rude language. It's because they have begun to think that one's ability should be judged by one's capability. In business, formal-polite language is the norm, where gender-specific expression is unnecessary.
Oh please don't apologize! It's not your fault at all. You are so polite here now that I feel as if I have been very rude to you. ;p
If social/career advancement is indeed to tied to one's capability, then it is a very good thing! Reading your comment inspires me to blog about something related to this ... :)
> The last bit is confusing, "enjoy the difference from males". Do you mean you would like to enjoy the opportunity to be able to use masculine speech, OR, enjoy the opportunity to be a male?
Hmm...I wonder how it could sound like that. By "the difference from males" I was trying to mean that I could feel more aware of my femininity when I sometimes spoke differently from the way males would speak. It might be interesting to use very masculine speech once in a while, though xD
> If social/career advancement is indeed to tied to one's capability, then it is a very good thing! Reading your comment inspires me to blog about something related to this ... :)
That sounds very interesting. I look forward to reading your next blog! :D
> Roomy, in fact, I have not read the book much. I do think there is only a small portion of Cantonese that has male/female speech.
I'm curious about the difference between male and female speech in Cantonese. Please keep me informed.
> Have you read the recent news? Japan has released the Chinese.
Yeah, Japan's media is buzzing with that news. It seems like the action of the Japanese government caused quite a controversy. But I don't want them to have a war with each other.
Ah I see. Hmm, then perhaps we could say,
"I could learn to enjoy and appreciate the subtlety and charm of feminine speech."
The reason for the confusion is because "difference from males" is a very vague phrase, since females are different from males in so many ways, and even within the arena of speech, it might be good to further specify what are the areas you enjoy being as a woman or as a man. Just my 2 cents. :)
>
> "I could learn to enjoy and appreciate the subtlety and charm of feminine speech."
>
>The reason for the confusion is because "difference from males" is a very vague phrase, since females are different from males in so many ways, and even within the arena of speech, it might be good to further specify what are the areas you enjoy being as a woman or as a man. Just my 2 cents. :)
Aha~, that would explain it! Since I thought it's self-evident as to Japanese that the difference from males in the area of language means feminine speech, I had no idea that the phrase I used made no sense to you.
Thank you for giving your 2 cents to me. ^_^
Thank you in advance.
Actually, it is self-evident. Readers would have half-guessed that you were talking about the "difference in language use", but it's a little too ambiguous in my humble opinion. Unless the reference is very strong and direct, it is usually safer to just explain it more clearly. Your entry was written in almost perfect English, and I understood it quite well (I think!) but that sentence caught me off-guard.
I went, "eh?" ;p
But really, if the full marks is 100 marks, I would give it 90 marks. :) :)
Good heavens! That means a lot coming from you!
リン先生、ありがとう！：Ｄ
「Jubay様なら、この契約について多少お勉強できるかしら。」ということがあります。また、大学の男性教授が、この「かしら」を使うのを聞いたことがあります。
相手に対して極度に気遣いをしないといけない話法、もしくは高度な学術用語を駆使しないといけない人種は、より丁寧な言葉＝日本語における女性言葉を選択するのかも知れないですね。
そして、それを受け取る私も、普段であればおかしいと感じる男性による女性言葉を、それほど気持ち悪い、とは思わず流れの中で聞き流していました。
Roomyさんは男性が「かしら」を使う場面って聞いたことありますか？これはまさに日本における社会的役割の自己表現の一例かと思います。他の言語でも、そのようなことが起こるのかどうか、非常に興味がありますね。
重要な点に気づかせてくれてありがとう。
以前何かで読んだことがありますが、「かしら」は「かしらん」から変わった言葉で、古くは男女に関係なく使っていた「か知らぬ」が変化したものなんだそうです。
Jubayさんのおっしゃる人たちがそのことを知っていたかどうか分かりませんが、おねえ言葉とかじゃなく真面目な会話の中で違和感を感じさせるなく使っていたんだとすれば、すごいと思います。
逆に私の世代の女の子は「かしら」ってめったに使わないので、「かしら」をさりげなく会話の中に織り込むことが出来る大人の女性には憧れますね（*＾。＾*）
不自然に男言葉や女言葉を強調するんじゃなくて、ごく普通の言い方なのにそれでも良い意味で男性や女性を感じさせる言葉づかいっていいな、と思います。
Jubayさんがおっしゃることからは外れてしまいましたね。ごめんなさい。
おねえ言葉に代表されるように、そのような言葉遣いを常にしていると、そのカテゴリーに自らが縛られてしまうものってありますよね。でも、Roomyさんのように語源に自覚的であれば、日常の中でさりげなく、自分らしさをアピールできるのかしら。できるような気もします。
NASAの火星探索チームを編成するときに、必ず男女半々にするとTVで言ってました。男性のみのチームだとアグレッシブ過ぎて失敗のリスクが高まり、女性だけだと保守的になりがちで実のある実験がしにくいのだとか。
英語という宇宙を旅するものとしては、男女構成比率がバランスのいい船に乗りたいですよね。いつも刺激的な話題をありがとう。
方言には男女の言葉の違いがほとんど無いものもありますよね。
その意味からすると、男言葉も女言葉の社会とともに進化してきたものだろうし、それはこれから変容していくかも知れないけど、古い区別が廃れても、また形を変えて男や女の自己表現の仕方が生まれてくるんじゃないかと思います。
日本語はそういった表現性の豊かな言語です。
NASAの火星探索チームの例は、なるほど、と思いました。
私は男と女はやはり本質的には違うものだと思うので、そうした違いを理解した上で、お互いに敬意を持ちつつお互いを生かし合うことが出来る社会になってほしいと思います。
Jubayさんの洞察眼には敬服しました。だからあんなに卓越した表現の日記を書けるんですね。
私も見習わないと ＜ おっと、その前に英語力が（＾－＾；
Anyway, I was much/quite impressed by that excellent book written by Kazuko Minami for women who are interested in English expressions or who are learning them. (learning is a verb, interested is an adjective, so I feel that the parallel structure was inappropriate with 2 words of different categories.)
We agreed that we wouldn't like to be forced to use feminine expressions and that we enjoy having access to both male and female speech. (compelled = internal desire; forced = external) -- the use of "though" here doesn't work because both parts of the sentence point to the same conclusion. Still, I'm not sure I really understood the last part.
Japanese is sometimes regarded as a language with highly developed gender-specific expressions; however, most of them are based on how you want to express yourself in words. (You could improve the logic of the sentence in many ways: expressions are not developed, and they aren't based on how you want to express yourself -- and of course, you will use words. Again, I'm not sure I understand the last part. I suggest (with some reserve): "Japanese is sometimes said to have a highly developed system of gender-specific expressions; however, this system is not restrictive and speakers are free to choose the expressions that best communicate what they wish to convey.")
The use of typical gender-specific expressions and words in Japanese is mostly characteristic of casual speech, whereas in formal speech - whether it's plain or polite -, both men and women use a common neutral language.
Thus, Japanese women can (say or write things in their social life without concern for gender difference)/(express themselves without concern for gender diffrerences in their social life), while sometimes scattering their womanly wit and charm here and there. ("scattering" and "here and there" have negative connotations. I suggest "..., but still have the ability to inject feminity in their speech as they wish.)
The gap between male speech and female speech in Japanese is closing in because not only do women come to use more and more neutral expressions and men also begin to avoid coarse or stiff expressions typical of men's language. ("also begin to avoid" implies that women avoid it too, which is incorrect.)
Viewed from another angle, as women play a larger role in society, the Japanese language used in social life will change, exhibiting more and more soft and casual expressions.
Administrative language has already been affected by these kinds of changes. (is that the meaning?)
If you go back far enough in time, you can see the important role women have been playing in the evolution of the Japanese language. ("if you went back in time" = time travel; "if you go back in time" = if you look at the situation at that time). You can only use "roles" in the plural if the roles are strikingly different. Here, we can consider their role in general.
Most notably, they played an important part in the widespread use (in spreading the use?) of hiragana, which enabled the development of purely Japanese works of literature as well, of course, as the introduction of the modern Japanese writing system.
In conclusion, the difference between women and men can thus sometimes have a positive influence on society, on the condition that it should not be used as a pretext for discrimination. ("thus sometimes" doesn't work; "exert" has a negative meaning (exert pressure, etc.);
I think men and women can have an ideal relationship when they understand and respect each other. ("between them" implies that you [or the subject of "understand"] is part of neither group.)
As men try to be more gentle and polite, so as to distinguish rudeness from masculinity, we as women have to educate ourselves and be wiser, so that feminity is not mistaken as ignorance. (aren't you implying that women are less wise and knowledgeable then men?!?)
As for the text itself, except a few grammatical issues, I encourage you to be more critical when you write and to ask yourself if the logic of your sentences can be questioned. Phrases like "based on how you want to express yourself in words" unfortunately weaken your text significantly. It's probably the only thing that prevent your texts from sounding professional, and I know you can go that extra mile :)
I really liked this sentence, too: while sometimes scattering their womanly wit and charm here and there.
I also like the way some of this was written almost story-like. It added a very nice touch!
I think women have more freedom to speak however they want in English. It is not uncommon at all anymore for women to speak what may be considered rough or harsh or even man-like in English, whereas Japanese is just now undergoing the switch of women moving from feminine speech to more neutral speech while masculine speech for women is still mostly unheard of.
I would say for the majority of Japanese women learning English that it would be best to aim for neutrality in speaking English, because it is incredibly uncommon for women to speak especially feminine-like in English. Japanese people are not usually the kind of people who like to stick out, so in order to better blend in with English-speakers, I would highly recommend sticking with neutral speech. That's not to say speaking masculine-like is uncommon, though. It's more common for women to throw around curse words than it is for women to be especially feminine in speech. If, however, you do not mind sticking out, then I would say it's safe to speak femininely if you like.
A good example of this harsh speech being more common comes from a situation in high school that I remember. One of my brother's friends was waiting for my brother with me and something annoying happened (I can't remember for the life of me what it was) and I said, "Good grief!" He looked at me and was like, "Did you just say good grief?" I said yes, and he just laughed at me. It's more common to say the f-word or damn or something along those lines compared to saying something as unoffensive as "good grief." It's also not uncommon for female professors to throw out curse words during class, though I stick with my opinion that not using curse words is the safest way to go to make sure you do not offend anyone. Maybe it's become so common in the US that that isn't a concern anymore, though.
I comment in response to arekusu's comment.
I disagree that you use language that implies women are inferior. When reading your articles, though, people do have to keep in mind that women in Japanese are not typically as feminist-minded as Western women, or driven in the feminist-minded way many Western women are. I am all for equality for women, but I do not refer to myself as a feminist, because I draw very distinct lines. Maybe that's why I can say that I don't feel your article suggests women are inferior. Also, in Germany, most married women still prefer being housewives to going out into the work world. You have to keep in mind with my comments that my upbringing is not like the average American's, so my interpretations of articles like this may be different from others'.
Anyway, good job as always! I'm extremely interested in this topic and wish I had more time to investigate it on my end, but I really enjoy reading the articles you write about it to get someone else's perspective from a culture different from the one I've been raised in where femininity is valued more (it seems, anyway), despite it's decline. I wonder if the transition of Japanese women speaking femininely to speaking neutrally is similar to the transition between Western women wearing pants rather than skirts. You see many more women wearing pants instead of skirts, whether it be in a casual outfit or a business suit. This is something I have observed, though I couldn't say for sure if there is a connection between women and equality and wearing pants, though for a time wearing pants was a way for women to say they were equal to men.
Sorry this comment got so long !
That's what I was refering to, and that's what struck me when reading the article. I didn't mean my comment as a criticism; I only meant to note the cultural difference. Some sentences even hurt my own sensibilities as a Western man whose mother fought her entire life to attain positions previously reserved for men, and that's why it struck me enough to make a mention it.
Thank you for your corrections and comment!
> Anyway, I was much/quite impressed by that excellent book written by Kazuko Minami for women who are interested in English expressions or who are learning them. (learning is a verb, interested is an adjective, so I feel that the parallel structure was inappropriate with 2 words of different categories.)
I thought that "to learn" is a verb, but "(to be) learning" is (a phrase with) an adjective, so I felt like that parallel structure was possible. In any case, this might sound unnatural to native speakers. Thank you for the suggestion.
> Administrative language has already been affected by these kinds of changes. (is that the meaning?)
Oh, I should have written like this: We have already seen these kinds of changes range from our everyday language to administrative language.
> As men try to be more gentle and polite, so as to distinguish rudeness from masculinity, we as women have to educate ourselves and be wiser, so that femininity is not mistaken as ignorance. (aren't you implying that women are less wise and knowledgeable then men?!?)
>
> You seem to take the initial position that women play a lesser role in society or that they are less educated or less wise. I'm not sure that that's what you meant, but that's what the words you use imply.
Hmm, there seems to be a need to explain what I was trying to say in that part. First, men and women are deemed to have equal rights before the law in Japan, though the social advancement of women here might lag behind that in Western countries. In spite of the opportunity for education being equally guaranteed to males and females, why is the role (in general) of women still behind that of men in Japan? I think there are many reasons for this, but the problem is that many of Japanese people, both men and women, are not very aware of this issue.
Unfortunately, there are some Japanese people INCLUDING women who think it's not surprising that women can't understand difficult or complicated things. Such belief is a superstition and is not true. I don't think at all that women are less wise than men or inferior in intellect to men. However, if women don't get interested in as many things as men do, they won't give full play to their ability.
This was what I was thinking when I wrote "mistaking ignorance for femininity" at that part.
I'm very sorry if this article hurt your feeling, but I was only talking about the state of Japanese women.
I know that my writing ability in English is far from being perfect. I have a long way to go... -_-;
Thank you for your comment! What a kind compliment!!! Of course, I know there are a lot of faults in my writings, but it would make me very happy if they could be of some help to readers.
> I really liked this sentence, too: while sometimes scattering their womanly wit and charm here and there.
I'm glad you liked it. I was a little worried whether this sentence would sound very weird. I didn't know if "scattering their womanly wit and charm" was an appropriate expression, but I wanted to write this part story-like rather than in article style.
About feminine speech:
It seems like it's true that most Western women don't care about feminine speech any more. I think it's because there are few lexical items in Western languages which can characterize masculine or feminine speech as compared to those in Japanese. (Of course, some Western languages have grammatical genders by which you can tell whether the speaker/writer is male or female, but those are different from what we are talking about here.)
Recently, I googled about Robin Lakoff's gender theory. She provided a list of differences between men's and women's language which she made through the observation of American English more than 30 years ago. Most of her remarks about the women's language seemed to emphasize the negative side of women. So it's not hard to imagine that American women have tried to get away from the old standard of women for decades since then. That doesn't surprise me. However, it would be disappointing for me if American women went so far as to frequently use curse words or other coarse expressions.
In my opinion, the difference between men's and women's language in Japanese has nothing to do with social discrimination against women. This is why I stress the fact that such a difference is not found in formal language in Japanese which is used in public life. Formal Japanese is inherently neutral, and the title さん (san) has been used regardless of sex, while English and other Western languages have such differences as Mr, Miss and Mrs.
In casual speech, we can choose between feminine and neutral expressions, just like choosing between skirts or pants. It is a matter of choice. So it is wrong that some people criticizes gender specific speech for causing the inequality of the sexes.
I know you have a detailed knowledge of feminine speech in Japanese and can make really good use of it, Rebekka-san. ^_^ I'm very happy you read this article and found it interesting. I hope you can make your dream come true! ^_-
I wonder if some of the negativity that Lakoff's research talks about has more to do with the fact that being a women or being feminine was for a long time in and of itself a negative thing. If Lakoff was a feminist, naturally she would have made all things feminine come across as negative. It's almost as if the feminist movement has said women need to be more like men to be equal rather than saying we're okay being womanly and feminine and still equally deserve the same amount of opportunity and respect regardless of that. It seems like the feminist movement tells women to change from being women to being more like men.
This tends to be a touchy topic for a lot of people, though, so I won't get into too much about my thoughts on the feminist movement.
Thank you for your reply!
In my English class in high school, I learned about the honorifics Mr (Mister), Miss, and Mrs (Misses) along with what those terms mean for English-speaking people. It seemed to me a little strange that only the titles for women vary depending on the marital status while the title for men, Mr, is used regardless of marital status, even though Master is occasionally used of young boy (under 13?) in certain situations. As you said, the use of Miss and Misses might be a remnant from the day when marriage was the most important for women. The same holds true for the naming practice of women changing their names upon marriage. Last year, a bill was submitted that would allow the "selective two-name system for married couples (選択的夫婦別姓)" in which married women can have the choice to keep their own maiden names, but this bill was not yet passed due to the opposition to the two-name system.
I've never read Lakoff's books about women's language; I'd like to read them, but they might be difficult to obtain today. I just gathered some information about her theory, so I'm not sure if Lakoff herself regarded the features of women's language as negative. In any case, her account of women’s language included some assumptions that could characterize its negative features (for example, "hedging" expresses her uncertainty and lack of authority). Strangely enough, many of her remarks about the women's language appear to be true for us Japanese people as well: we very often use tag questions in casual speech (e.g. 楽しいね？); implications or indirect speech (e,g. うるさい！ instead of 静かにして！).
I know that topics related to women's movement are very touchy. I myself stand in the middle of the road and try not to get into extreme viewpoints. I'm all for social equality and advancement of women, but at the same time, always intrigued with fashion and feminine way of life. ^_-
本当に、スゴイですね！！！
Roomyさんって、帰国子女？英文科？？それとも言語学者？？？
「才色兼備」は、Roomyさんのためにある熟語ですね！！！
ところで「03：15」には、何か特別な意味があるのですか？？？
＊つまらない質問をしてしまって、すみません、、、ｆ（＾＾；
どうも～（*＾。＾*）
ぜ～んぜん、すごくないですよ。
英語で考えながら文章を書くようにしてるので、すごく時間がかかっちゃってます！
それなのに、こんなに間違えだらけ (T△T)
え、「03：15」？
これはね、「げんかつぎ」ってやつ？
いろんな時間帯に日記を投稿してみて、この時間帯がいちばん反響が良かったので、日記を投稿するときだけこの時間にしているの。
ふだんは爆睡中なんだけどね（笑）
I was so surprised about the bill you mentioned! I had no idea that women are actually not allowed to keep their maiden name when they marry and simply add their husband's name as an addition! It's been going on for so long in the US that I guess I hadn't considered it to actually be a legal issue. If I ever married, though, I doubt I would keep my maiden name. How annoying to write four names every time I sign something! Because, you know, Westerners often have middle names, too. Sometimes I think it's silly to keep one's maiden name. After all, it is just a name, isn't it? What it is does not change who you are, right? I understand how it would be seen as an equality thing, but it goes to the point of going maybe a little too far? I have had female professors who have done that and their names are just ridiculously long! Besides, then when a child comes into the picture, does the child take on both names? If it's a girl and she takes both names and then gets married and does the same thing, she'll end up with three last names! Do you see where I'm going with this? ＞▽＜ It just isn't really a good idea in practice, though it sounds good.
It's interesting the observation you made about the negative comments towards women's speech being applied to Japanese as well! It really comes down to what one's culture values. Westerners, as a rule of thumb, do not like people who beat around the bush. Japanese people, however, do not like people who are completely and totally direct and blunt. For women's speech in English, though, I think you can draw a fine line between being direct enough for the speaker to understand exactly what you mean without saying it completely directly, and talking in such an indirect way no one understands exactly what you're saying. Maybe that is the key.
I'm with you in the middle of the road. I try to view feminism from a practical and bigger-picture point of view rather than the blind advancement of women that seems to be more common.
By the way, I will look for the Lakoff books. If I can find any, I will let you know and if I can get a copy, I'll try to send it to you. I imagine, in this day and age, there has to be a way to find copies somewhere.
Thank you for explaining the term "Master." So it seems like I won't have few opportunities to use it.
As to "selective two-name system for married couples (選択的夫婦別姓)", I figure I might as well explain to you a little bit about this system. This doesn't mean that a married woman can take "two names" as her surname, but she can have the choice between keeping their own maiden name or changing it to match her husband's surname. So it doesn't follow that her full name becomes longer after marriage by adding her husband's surname to her own maiden name. In Japan, both men and women can have only one family name because they must belong to one and the same household (戸籍). Traditionally, it has been taken for granted that women adopt their husband's family name upon marriage. According the "selective two-name system for married couples", if I married, I could choose between my maiden name and my husband's name as my married name. Since there's controversy about the advantages and disadvantages of this system, I would be stuck with what to do when this system were put in place.
About the indirect speech used by Japanese people, I've heard of an interesting anecdote:
It was when an American man was traveling in Japan. While waiting for the lights to change at an intersection, he saw a little boy run into the street and narrowly escaped being run over by a car. Just then, he heard the voice of the child's mother crying, "危ない！(Abunai!)" Since he didn't know what it meant in Japanese, he thought she said, "Have an eye!" He was deeply impressed to know that even an ordinary Japanese mother usually spoke fluent English to her kids.
Of course, he guessed wrong. But it was quite natural that the mother cried, "危ない！(It's dangerous!)" instead of "気をつけなさい！(Watch out!)" We Japanese people apt to use indirect commands and requests rather than straightforward imperatives.
I wonder if today's American women would rarely use "indirect imperatives" such as, "It's cold in here, isn't it?" or "Why don't you close the window?" when they really have a request to close the window.
Anyway, I'm really happy to know that you would look for the Lakoff books! A thousand thanks for your kindness!!! ^_^
Oh! I see the system they want to implement in Japan is different from what's happening in the West. Like you said, though, it becomes difficult then for the women. Keep her own name or change it--then what about the children? Whose name do they inherit? :\ Sometimes, change toward equality is more troublesome than it's worth. If it were me, I'd probably just change my name, honestly. ^^;;
That was a funny story about the English man! I've noticed things like that, too, though, using 危ない instead of 気をつけなさい or something... It is somewhat uncommon in America for women or men to make indirect requests or demands. It's not totally unheard of, but it would sound something more like, "Do you think you could close the window?" or "Would you close the window?" or simply "Can you close the window?" rather than "Close the window." Actually, direct commands like "close the window" tend to be rare, they just sound rude and aggressive and tend to be used only when someone is irritated or angry. I use indirect requests like these all the time. I actually can't think of an occasion when anybody has given a direct command like that ... Unless it was the teacher saying, "Pass your papers up." I'll be keeping my ear open to better observe how people make requests and commands. I guess the ones I listed are in order from most indirect to most direct. "Can you close the window" is probably more common than "Do you think you could close the window?" (Which is the one I tend to use more.)
About the Lakoff books, I found a bunch on Amazon! There's one called "The Language War" and another called "Perspectives on Language, Grammar, and Gender" that sound fascinating!
I'm going to see if I can find these electronically through library websites. I'll let you know what I find. ^^
According to the the plan of the system, if parents have different surnames, their children can have either father's or mother's surname, and these siblings may have different surnames. However, Minister of Justice Keiko Chiba indicated her intention to change the plan so that all siblings should have the same (i.e. either father's or mother's) surname even when their parents have different surnames.
> If it were me, I'd probably just change my name, honestly. ^^;;
Me too, maybe... I'd like to have the same surname with my child(ren), that is the biggest reason.
> Actually, direct commands like "close the window" tend to be rare, they just sound rude and aggressive and tend to be used only when someone is irritated or angry. I use indirect requests like these all the time. I actually can't think of an occasion when anybody has given a direct command like that ... Unless it was the teacher saying, "Pass your papers up."
Oh, I see. Besides, parents use direct commands when they tell their children to (or not to) do something, don't they? In Japan, most parents never use polite commands like ～てください. They usually say, ～しなさい (Do something) and ～するんじゃない or ～しちゃいけません (Don't do something). Direct commands like ～しろ might be used by fathers though it sounds rude and aggressive. The commands of teachers depend on the person. Some teachers say like parents, some use polite commands.
> I'm going to see if I can find these electronically through library websites. I'll let you know what I find. ^^
How nice of you! I can't thank you enough!!! ^_^
おぉぉ、なるほど！そうだったんですね！！
教えて下さってありがとうございます！！！＊＾０＾＊
すごいなぁ～、色々分析されているんですね、、、☆
真似したいけれど、、、3時15分は、、、きついですね、、、ｆ（＾＾；
日記は公開する時間によっては添削が付きにくいですよ。
午後、特に夕方以降は添削が付きにくいみたいです。
以前、夕方６時頃に日記を公開したら10時間近く添削もコメントも付かなかったことがありました。＞＜
Parents, I think in general, will tend to use direct commands. It does depend on the individual, though. For example, I would probably have a tendency to say, "Would you do this?" to my kid, because that's how I ask everybody else. It's almost like an unconscious habit.
My mom never really gave direct orders except when she was mad, but my dad does tend to give commands very directly, "Do this. Do that." In stores, when I see moms with their kids, they usually give direct commands, too. They're usually frustrated, irritated, and impatient, though, so maybe that explains why. It isn't at all unusual for people to give direct commands in the West, and most people don't think anything of it.
I think what has more affect is the person's tone. I think Westerners can be very sensitive to tone, because tone seems to determine more than the words being said. If someone told me, "Would you CLOSE the WINDOW" as if they were grinding their teeth at the same time, I probably wouldn't take it so well, even though the words are polite. ^^; Americans, at least, tend to do that a lot, though. It's like a way to keep from screaming out orders despite being angry. It's almost more annoying, though, because the person is still making their irritation clear in their tone. @_@;
I thought that American parents almost always give direct commands to their children, because I felt like direct commands in English wouldn't sound as rude as those in Japanese. In Japanese, it's more complicated to make requests to other people without being offensive. For example, "Look!" may be translated as either 見ろ or 見て, but the latter doesn't sound as rude as the former and is preferred by females. I thought people usually use direct commands among friends in English, but like you said, direct commands might sometimes sound offensive because even some parents tend to avoid giving direct commands to their kids, right? At least, it will be appropriate for ladies to speak politely so as not to sound crude, ha-ha.
I also think it's important to care about tone. It is the same in Japan, not just Western countries. To speak politely with angry tone might sound more offensive than to speak bluntly but with a smile. Unfortunately, women have a greater tendency to do express their feelings with tone than men do. ＞＜ Anyway, luckily (or unluckily depending on the situation) we cannot read the tone in written texts...
Ah, yes. I've been warned in both of my business writing classes to be careful what you write to people, because tone is not communicated in text. I'm sure it can be dangerous, too, if you don't pay attention to what you write.
I, too, care about choosing my words so as not to offend when I write to someone, though I'm not sure if it always works out as I expect, ^^; Girls tend to use emoticons and smileys more often than boys. I'm sure this is in an effort not to offend the feelings of others. The sentence-final particles like ね and よ can also work for this purpose by softening the assertive tone.
あぁぁ、そっ、そうなんですね、、、ｆ（＾＾；
確かに「時差」とか考えなきゃダメですよね、、、☆
私も特に初期の頃「日記のタイトルや内容がつまらないから、、、」
と、、、一人で落ち込んでいた事もありました、、、♪ ＊＾＾＊
でも、今やRoomyさんの日記を切望しているファンの方が大勢いるので、、、
いつポストしても大丈夫な気がするのは、、、私だけでしょうか？？？
というか、私が一番乗りしたいだけだったりして、、、あはは、、♪ ＊＾-＾＊
もちろん、例外はありますよ☆
Nanaさんなら、そんな小細工をしなくても添削やコメントがいっぱい付くだけの人気がありますよね☆☆
フレンドさんの日記に必ず添削やコメントしたり、紹介文を書いたり。
私はNasaさんのようなマメさが無いので、フレンドが定着しません（笑）
たま～にしか日記を書かないので、本当は毎回でも私の日記を読んでコメントしてくれるフレンドがいると嬉しいんですけど。。。
ま、贅沢な望みかな (＾。＾)ゞ
Nanaさん、今度は一番乗りお願いしますね！(*・∀-)☆
As men are trying to be more gentle and polite to avoid mistaking rudeness as masculinity, we as women have to learn more and be wiser to avoid mistaking ignorance for femininity.
This paragraph it shows you need to being open-minded it because of life evolution.
^^,
Do have a permanent boyfriend?
Oh, well. I like open-minded men, of course. I'm curious to know if there's a "permanent boyfriend." ^^
次回作はいつですか？
もうすぐ、この日記から1か月になりますよ！
みんな、キリンになっちゃいますよ～ ＊＾０＾＊
そう言ってくれたの、Nana先生が初めてです。
最近、閲覧数も激減だし、だ～れも期待してないんだろうなって。。。（／。＼）
これから頑張って着手します☆
でも日数がかかりそう。。。
ちょっと男っぽい言い方をたまにに使うならなら全然ＯＫですよ。私も使うし。
私の友達にはいないけど、「僕」「俺」を女性なのに使うのは感覚的に無理。（歌の文句とかならＯＫ．）
男性変身願望なんだろうけど、彼氏が出来たら変わると思いますよ。
I'd like to add that, as an outlet for their frustrations, women use a lot of talking, while men withdraw into their cave and fall silent, lol