Aug 26th 2010 05:27 syltetoejsglas
"I've just read how some colours in Japanese are adjectives, and some are nouns!"

I don't understand this sentence. So I cannnot correct the japansese sentence. What did you do specifically?

Aug 26th 2010 05:39 muso
syltetoejsglas-さん、
ありがとう

I meant that みどり(green)、むらさき(purple)、いろ(colour) are nouns, but くろい(black)、あかい(red)、あおい(blue/green) are adjectives.

So you can use くるない to say it isn't black, but you can't do the same to みどり as it's a noun.

Aug 26th 2010 06:14 tony
There are noun forms for kuroi, akai, aoi, kiiroi and shiroi, too: kuro, aka, ao, kiiro, and shiro. These are used when you are talking about the colors themselves, instead of modifying a noun with them.

The negative form of kuroi would be kurokunai, but I have never heard it used. (I'm only an intermediate level student, though.)

You are correct that most other colors are nouns, and not "na adjectives," as one would expect. Some people call these "no adjectives."

"False adjective" seems to me like a strange thing to call them, though. Most nouns can describe other nouns if you put "no" after them. Nouns and "na adjectives" behave very similarly in many grammatical situations. So in Japanese, it is natural to think of a noun as something which can modify another noun. Many mistakes that nihonjin make when writing English come from failing to distinguish between nouns and adjectives in English.

Aug 26th 2010 06:24 tony

Aug 26th 2010 06:25 biospore

Aug 26th 2010 06:33 muso
Thanks Tony, that's a very helpful comment (I didn't know about the verb forms), and yes "pseudo-adjectives" and "false adjectives" aren't helpful terms.

The examples I was reading were along the lines of:
みずは青くない。　(the water is not blue)
versus something like 青いなみずはありませんでした

I'm still working out the differences between them though...

Aug 26th 2010 07:59 tony
Oh, I was only thinking of modifying a noun with kurokunai ("kurokunai hon", for example) rather than using it as a predicate ("hon wa kurokunai desu.") The latter certainly occurs often enough.

Your alternate version of "mizu wa aokunai" (the water isn't blue) should be "aoi mizu ja nai" (it isn't blue water). There is no particle between a true adjective (i-adjective, 形容詞) and a following noun. You will learn later that a verb can also modify a following noun with no intervening particle. Adjectives are similar to verbs in a lot of ways in Japanese, and there are endings which change verbs to adjectives and adjectives to verbs. You may want to think of an adjective like "kuroi" as meaning "is black" rather than just "black", to emphasize this similarity with verbs. Then it will make more sense to you when you learn that "kuroi" has a past tense "kurokatta", for example ("kurokatta hon" = "a book which was black").

The similarity I was talking about between nouns and "na adjectives" can be illustrated as follows:

shizuka na heya = (a) quiet room
midori no heya = (a) green room
heya wa shizuka (desu) = (the) room is quiet
heya wa midori (desu) = (the) room is green
heya ga shizuka na no de, nemurikonde imasu = Because the room is quiet, I am falling asleep
heya ga midori na no de, nuritai desu = Because the room is green, I want to paint it

Aug 26th 2010 08:17 yu-ki
がんばってね:)

Aug 26th 2010 13:35 Mark
"Mind mapping"のソフトウェアを持ってます。とても有効に使っています。彼の理論は多くの人々に影響を与えましたね。

Aug 27th 2010 04:59 muso
おはようMark-さん
I agree about Mind Mapping. I only found out about it a couple of years ago but I've been using it a lot recently. I have got a couple of Japanese one's I've been working with too!

Aug 27th 2010 05:21 tony
I tried to send the message below when I acknowledged your friend invitation, but the web site wouldn't send it for some reason (haven't had problems before), so I am copying it here.

アレクスさん、初めまして。

What resources are you using to study Japanese? I want to recommend a site for grammar: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/index.html#contents
It's not perfect, but it has some very good explanations, and it's far better than anything else I have seen on the web.
My primary conversation textbook has been "Japanese for Everyone", published by Gakken (not to be confused with 皆の日本語). "Japanese Verbs and the Essentials of Grammar" is a handy and inexpensive reference for basic grammar. There's a web site, smart.fm, which has sound files for 6000+ vocabulary words and for sentences containing each. I'm not crazy about flashcard learning, but the sound files alone make that site a valuable resource.
Apart from lang-8.com, I spend a lot of time at japanesestudy.org . There is a chat box there where people practice conversing (in text); the level varies greatly depending on who is there. There are a couple of nihonjin who drop in from time to time.
Personally, I find Japanese grammar far more logical and esthetically appealing than English grammar, although there is a lot I still don't know. It is MUCH easier to learn than Mandarin Chinese grammar, which I am also studying.

では。
トニー

Aug 27th 2010 05:42 muso
In short, I'm using all the resources I can! In case anyone else reading finds this useful, I'll also reply here:

Online resources:
* lang-8, obviously is a great resource
* livemocha.com is great for lessons and tests
* The site you mentioned, Tae Kim's guide is brilliant
* Tofugu.com is a great resource (and he also does good youtubes)

I've just joined
www.englishjapaneseonlinedictionary.com although I've no idea how good it is, just that I used the dictionary on it a lot, but got sick of the adverts.

Magazines:
* I have a subscription to the Hiragana Times
* Doraemon (which I've "read" about two pages of)

CDs:
* Rapid Japanese - learning Japanese pronunciation to music

Books:
* Japanese the Manga Way - good guide to conversational grammar
* Remembering the Kanji - memory technique for kanji
* All About Particles by Naoka Chino - handy pocket guide

Other:
* Podcasts (I haven't found a good one though)
* Human Japanese on my mobile phone (Android)
* Various Japanese DVDs

Currently I'm working through Human Japanese. It's well written on the whole (I wrote a review of it on my website: http://www.clockwork-evolution.com/content/human-japanese-android-os-review - I have found a few instances where it was a little confusing (hence the conversation here)

I keep going back to All About Particles, Remembering the Kanji and Japanese the Manga Way, but I think I'm only just starting to get any real benefit from them as bits and pieces are starting to make sense.

Aug 28th 2010 02:21 mana_momo
いつも思うけど、勉強熱心だよね。スバラシイ！

Actually, I've tried mind-mapping. but mine was not good.... :-(

なんだか、難しかったです・・・
うまく書けるようになれば、すごく役立つんだと思うのだけど・・・